SpaceX Internet Satellite Network: Starlink

[scaesare]

For those (like me) who are unfamiliar with all the telecom acronyms:

NGSO - Non Geostationary Orbit
FSS - Fixed Satellite Service
CIR - Committed Information Rate
SLA - Service Level Agreement
VSAT - Very Small Aperture Terminal
SL - unknown

SL: Satellite link, I believe

ISL: Inter-satellite link

LISL: Laser ISL

(on edit: aced by @mongo by a fraction of a second!)

 

[navguy12]

Allegedly:

Musk's Starlink is operational on occupied territory which is shown on their official website. Ukrainian fighters report that their own Starlink speed drops to 0.1 Mb/sec, a thousand times from promised speed. Russians are using their Starlinks without problems which is already felt on the frontline.Media presumes that activated Starlinks are sold to Russia through UAE. As you see on the map, Starlinks are specifically disabled near the Russian border; Musk can also turn them off for Ukraine when he wants to or turn them on for Russia.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755700982221049899

 

[ecarfan]

How does a Ukrainian news site know what the Russians are doing with Starlink? Ukrainska Pravda on Wikipedia.

As weird as Elon can be sometimes, I find it hard to believe that he is throttling Starlink in Ukraine while ensuring it operates normally in areas of Russian-occupied Ukraine.

 

[ecarfan]

SpaceX: We Are Not Selling Starlink Dishes to Russian Merchants or Military​

SpaceX is pushing back against reports that claim merchants in Russia have been selling Starlinkdishes to Russian troops for use in the Ukraine war.

“If Russian stores are claiming to sell Starlink for service in that country, they are scamming their customers,” the company tweeted today.

These reports prompted SpaceX to respond with a forceful dismissal. “SpaceX does not do business of any kind with the Russian Government or its military,” the company said in Thursday’s tweet. “SpaceX has never sold or marketed Starlink in Russia, nor has it shipped equipment to locations in Russia.”

The company adds that it’s never authorized any third-party groups to sell Starlink units in Dubai. Hence, if the shipments are real, then they’re occurring behind SpaceX’s back.

 

[bxr140]

Or, a multi-hundred passenger cruise ship exceeds the ISL bandwidth of one satellite (or the aggregate capacity of all in view).'

Could be, but it is most unlikely that the fat ISL pipes in the swarm of satellites above any cruise ship (or collection of cruise ships) are the limiting factor in capacity.

Or, they plan to use ships at local cache, just like Netflix already does with geographically distributed servers. Ocean liner as both consumer and provider.

Could be, but it's most unlikely that a cruise ship needs a gateway sized pipe for it to act as a local cache (vs many user link pipes, as we've seen).

Or, SpaceX need more telemetry from its rockets and so is adding up to 4 domes operating at gateway frequencies to each of the 3 drone ships.

Could be, and it's not unprecedented concept--especially on the western range, for instance, there's not a ton of ground stations to track vehicles (or separation events)--certainly not enough to do so without interruption. Gub'ment polar launches will often send a boat (or boats) out in the middle of nowhere to cover the gaps. Commercial launches often just YOLO and wait for McMurdo (or beyond) to confirm satellite separation, under the logic that there's nothing you would or even could do if you got unfavorable real time telemetry over the South Pacific (so why pay for a Boat With An Antenna).

That said, for SX it is unlikely that a gateway antenna pointing down from a rocket [at a not-yet existing floating gateway] is materially better than a gateway antenna pointing up at the [existing] starlink constellation, especially in a region that is otherwise very low traffic.

I was thinking perhaps the ability to do independent "theater" nets for operations, where it may be advantageous for a ship to be the "hub" for all the comms.

It's certainly plausible that a Big Boat could support a gateway antenna (or set of gateway antennas) rather than a set of user antennas (like we've seen on cruise ships). Basically, it's a 'community gateway at sea'. If this is the intent of the above SX investigation though, it's likely a function of an independent Starshield constellation (in other words, completely separate and not at all leveraging any Starlink infra) that otherwise doesn't have the capacity of Starlink.

 

[dhanson865]

Hawaiian Airlines debuts free inflight Wi-Fi from SpaceX's Starlink

Hawaiian Airlines is the first major U.S. airline to offer the satellite-based service.

www.cnbc.com

 

[JB47394]

SpaceX to Deorbit 100 Starlink Satellites Due to Detected Flaw

The removal of so many satellites at once is unprecedented, highlighting the challenges of huge satellite constellations.

gizmodo.com

The chosen units, all early-version 1 Starlink satellites, are “currently maneuverable and serving users effectively, but the Starlink team identified a common issue in this small population of satellites that could increase the probability of failure in the future.”

 

[Grendal]

I was on a small island in the Bahamas for my vacation and the VRBO place we stayed in had Starlink for their internet. It worked great.

 

[Tiger]

How does a Ukrainian news site know what the Russians are doing with Starlink? Ukrainska Pravda on Wikipedia.

As weird as Elon can be sometimes, I find it hard to believe that he is throttling Starlink in Ukraine while ensuring it operates normally in areas of Russian-occupied Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1756624462466977874

 

[willow_hiller]

Not sure if this is new, but I'm getting Starlink advertisements on social media now:

 

[ecarfan]

@Tiger if Russians are using Starlink on the front lines it may not be possible for SpaceX to shut those down without also shutting down Ukranians using Starlink on the same front lines. Starlink cell sizes have been estimated to be 8 to 15 miles in diameter.

Russians may be purchasing Starlinks outside Russia through third parties, registering them under the Mobile plan, and then taking them to Ukraine.

It’s not possible for SpaceX to figure out exactly where the front lines are, where Russian troops are, and then selectively shut down certain terminals.

 

[mongo]

@Tiger if Russians are using Starlink on the front lines it may not be possible for SpaceX to shut those down without also shutting down Ukranians using Starlink on the same front lines. Starlink cell sizes have been estimated to be 8 to 15 miles in diameter.

Russians may be purchasing Starlinks outside Russia through third parties, registering them under the Mobile plan, and then taking them to Ukraine.

So

SpaceX can shut down individual terminals, once identified. Otherwise, no one would pay for service.

 

[Tiger]

@Tiger if Russians are using Starlink on the front lines it may not be possible for SpaceX to shut those down without also shutting down Ukranians using Starlink on the same front lines. Starlink cell sizes have been estimated to be 8 to 15 miles in diameter.

Russians may be purchasing Starlinks outside Russia through third parties, registering them under the Mobile plan, and then taking them to Ukraine.

It’s not possible for SpaceX to figure out exactly where the front lines are, where Russian troops are, and then selectively shut down certain terminals.

My guess is that NSA can decrypt the content and Palantir can deduct which side the device belongs to. /s

 

[ecarfan]

SpaceX can shut down individual terminals, once identified. Otherwise, no one would pay for service.

Yes SpaceX can turn off accounts, but if the terminals were purchased outside Ukraine by non-Russians and then moved to Ukraine to locations where it is not clear who is using them, it’s a judgement call on SpaceX’s part as to what to do.

Terminals could also be purchase outside Ukraine by people who are pro-Ukraine and then taken to the front lines in Ukraine and used within a few miles of Russians using terminals. There is probably no precise front line map available to SpaceX.

So it seems to me a difficult problem for SpaceX to figure out.

 

[mongo]

Yes SpaceX can turn off accounts, but if the terminals were purchased outside Ukraine by non-Russians and then moved to Ukraine to locations where it is not clear who is using them, it’s a judgement call on SpaceX’s part as to what to do.

Terminals could also be purchase outside Ukraine by people who are pro-Ukraine and then taken to the front lines in Ukraine and used within a few miles of Russians using terminals. There is probably no precise front line map available to SpaceX.

So it seems to me a difficult problem for SpaceX to figure out.

Yar, I was clarifying that they can shut down terminals without shutting down the entire cell.
To make it simple, have Ukrainian military users access a specific web site. Any terminals that don't send traffic there get blocked.

 

[jerry33]

Yar, I was clarifying that they can shut down terminals without shutting down the entire cell.
To make it simple, have Ukrainian military users access a specific web site. Any terminals that don't send traffic there get blocked.

That sounds easy to intercept. A better way (which I think has already been suggested) is to have each terminal registered by the Ukraine. However, the issue with this is that Ukraine needs to keep very good track--I'm not sure that's possible in a war situation.

 

[mongo]

That sounds easy to intercept. A better way (which I think has already been suggested) is to have each terminal registered by the Ukraine. However, the issue with this is that Ukraine needs to keep very good track--I'm not sure that's possible in a war situation.

What is intercepted?
Radio comms to unit, unit pings web site, terminal green listed for X hours. Can use one time code per activation.

 

[Grendal]

@Tiger if Russians are using Starlink on the front lines it may not be possible for SpaceX to shut those down without also shutting down Ukranians using Starlink on the same front lines. Starlink cell sizes have been estimated to be 8 to 15 miles in diameter.

Russians may be purchasing Starlinks outside Russia through third parties, registering them under the Mobile plan, and then taking them to Ukraine.

It’s not possible for SpaceX to figure out exactly where the front lines are, where Russian troops are, and then selectively shut down certain terminals.

Besides purchasing, the Russians can capture Starlink equipment in the places they have overrun. That equipment can probably be used by them for a time. That one intercepted communication could easily be interpreted with that scenario.

 

[mongo]

SpaceX to locate drone ship off the Bahamas for landing and tourism.
Bahamas Ministry of Tourism, Investments & Aviation Secures Historic Agreement with SpaceX to Propel Bahamas into the Space Technology & Tourism Frontier
This allows launches into the 53 degree plane from the Cape without a dog leg.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760413312548733161

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760477639725166746