Stock Negative Camber Intentional by Tesla?

[warrior15r]

Hey Everyone,

So I have had my 2023 Model Y for about 1 year now with the following set up:

H&R Lowering Springs
Tein Enduro Pro Shocks
14MM Front Spacer and 17MM Rear Spacer
20 inch Induction Wheels with stock GoodYear Eagle F 1 tires
I never adjusted the camber specs away from stock after H&R Springs were lowered so it was running at about Negative 2.1 degrees in the rear.

The tires were wearing uneven so the inner of rear tires were completely worn after 15k miles.

I decided to switch over to Hankook ION EVO SUV AS and got camber arms and adjusted the rear camber to negative 1 degrees. It’s been 500 miles and my efficiency seems to gotten much worse.

Thoughts?

I was wondering if the negative 2.1 camber was actually helping efficiency? Maybe that’s why Tesla had a negative camber at stock specs? Or is the rear 17 mm spacer now causing inefficiency since there’s less of a camber now so the tire is probably out a little bit more? I know typically on a gas car, 0 camber is suppose to be better for efficiency but I’m not so sure now about on an EV.

 

[fiehlsport]

Used tires with low tread are more efficient than brand new tires. But at 500mi you should start getting it back again. The EVO AS is more of a touring tire than the Eagle F1, so while it will handle worse, it should be a bit more efficient, like-for-like, once broken in and worn down a bit.

 

[warrior15r]

Used tires with low tread are more efficient than brand new tires. But at 500mi you should start getting it back again. The EVO AS is more of a touring tire than the Eagle F1, so while it will handle worse, it should be a bit more efficient, like-for-like, once broken in and worn down a bit.

I do remember what you are indicated as well about low tread tires however, I wanna say even when my Eagle F1 was brand new from Factory, it did not effect my efficiency and range as much as it is it for my current set up. That’s why its make me very curious about if the less camber or spacers are having an impact.

 

[fiehlsport]

I've never considered it much either, but what you're alluding to does make sense, at least at a cursory glance. More negative camber = less tire on the road. Which may equal more efficiency...

When you square up the camber, there is more rubber on the road in straight line driving, which might cause a drop in mileage. I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea if this actually checks out in the real world, but it sorta makes sense.

 

[warrior15r]

I've never considered it much either, but what you're alluding to does make sense, at least at a cursory glance. More negative camber = less tire on the road. Which may equal more efficiency...

When you square up the camber, there is more rubber on the road in straight line driving, which might cause a drop in mileage. I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea if this actually checks out in the real world, but it sorta makes sense.

Yep. I was thinking this exact same thing. If I had an alignment shop, I would totally test this theory out.

 

[Sweed269]

-1 is about the max you want for a street car. Old tires are smaller and travel less distance per revolution. This messes up the calculation.
New tires are bigger and have higher resistance. Both lower the calculation.

 

[MM3SJ]

I've had a Model 3 for about 4 years. I lowered it with Eibach and put 15mm spacers front and rear along with changing stock 18" aero wheels to 19" TSportline spokes which supposedly weight the same as the 19" sport stock wheels. After doing those mods there is a significant difference in the stated range on the screen vs. real world driving even after changing the wheel setting to 19" sport wheel on the screen. While my alignment specs are still within factory including front and rear camber, I believe one of the biggest factors in the reduced range has been the spacers as the spoke wheels are now flush with the body panels and catch more air turbulence. I am not sure what type of wheels you have but this could be one of the reasons you're seeing reduced range.

 

[warrior15r]

I've had a Model 3 for about 4 years. I lowered it with Eibach and put 15mm spacers front and rear along with changing stock 18" aero wheels to 19" TSportline spokes which supposedly weight the same as the 19" sport stock wheels. After doing those mods there is a significant difference in the stated range on the screen vs. real world driving even after changing the wheel setting to 19" sport wheel on the screen. While my alignment specs are still within factory including front and rear camber, I believe one of the biggest factors in the reduced range has been the spacers as the spoke wheels are now flush with the body panels and catch more air turbulence. I am not sure what type of wheels you have but this could be one of the reasons you're seeing reduced range.

Yeah I know as wondering about the spacers too. So many variables.

Also, whether you set your wheels size to 19 inch or 21 inch on the model Y, the stated range on the dashboard doesn’t change - I think that’s pretty deceiving of Tesla. When my I bought Model Y long range in 2023, the Tesla website stated range would be 314 miles with 20 inch induction. But on the car’s dashboard still showed 334 miles no matter the wheel size selected. So range information will always be off as result. Totally fixable by software but Tesla hasn’t done it. Not sure if this is also the case on model 3

 

[dafish]

A few degrees of camber should not (opinion), alter the amount of tire patch in contact with the ground or rolling resistance. It will affect load of the tire patch (more tire evenly loaded with camber closer to zero), but that should help resistance, not hurt it.

I suspect it's all in the new tire. The spacer is certainly a factor, but you report you'd done that before the tire change and camber alteration, so...

BTW, here's a few links that suggest negative camber hurts rolling resistance (as I suspected):

Camber and rolling resistance

Here we are…back again! I am always in lack of time to write here and i always have a lot of thing in my head i would like to talk about. This time, i am writing about a topic which is really…

drracing.wordpress.com

https://www.diva-portal.se/smash/get/diva2:1073290/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Of course the 20's are hurting you big time, but you likely already know that.


BTW, my '23 MYLR is wearing perfectly even. I wonder it the lowering kit altered the alignment. This happens on some cars.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

Yeah I know as wondering about the spacers too. So many variables.

Also, whether you set your wheels size to 19 inch or 21 inch on the model Y, the stated range on the dashboard doesn’t change - I think that’s pretty deceiving of Tesla. When my I bought Model Y long range in 2023, the Tesla website stated range would be 314 miles with 20 inch induction. But on the car’s dashboard still showed 334 miles no matter the wheel size selected. So range information will always be off as result. Totally fixable by software but Tesla hasn’t done it. Not sure if this is also the case on model 3

Sidewall profiles change with rim diameter to more or less equal out overall tyre heights between 19 and 20 "square" fittings all 255. Not sure about the 21" with wider tyres but likely very very much less than 1" different to 20".

Check tiresize.com for actual diameters.