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4680 Cathode & Anode discussion for investors
- Thread starter Buckminster
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petit_bateau
Active Member
At a guess the 100 MPa is the pressure between the nip in the calender.
I'd not appreciated how small the calender rools that Tesla are using are. I had imagined 3-metre width ones. It seems they are only didgy ones and they are arranged to produce stripes of material, so no need to hold the thickness constant over a very wide sheet, just over a narrow stripe. That means the calender build/test/change/repeat cycle is much faster. From the various picturs and info I think they have that aspect of 4680 production fairly well sorted now.
I'd not appreciated how small the calender rools that Tesla are using are. I had imagined 3-metre width ones. It seems they are only didgy ones and they are arranged to produce stripes of material, so no need to hold the thickness constant over a very wide sheet, just over a narrow stripe. That means the calender build/test/change/repeat cycle is much faster. From the various picturs and info I think they have that aspect of 4680 production fairly well sorted now.
For the nerds:
This book from Kang just went on sale and is already sold out. You will notice Shirley Meng was tagged and she even said she can't wait to use it. If you watch The Limiting Factor, you know Shirley is one of Jordan's contacts that has helped him understand battery materials and dissect a 4680 cell.
You can still get the book on the publisher's site:
Electrolytes, Interfaces and Interphases
Electrolytes are indispensable components in electrochemistry and the fast-growing electrochemical energy storage markets. Research in electrolytes has witbooks.rsc.org
There is also a foreword by Jeff Dahn:
Foreword by Jeff Dahn
I have been working on lithium and lithium-ion batteries for 44 years, beginning in 1978. I was trained as a materials physicist and up until about 2008 I
I really want to get this book, but even with all my own research and with Jordan's videos, I hope it won't be TOO over my head. haha
'Great news': EU hails discovery of massive phosphate rock deposit in Norway
A massive underground deposit of high-grade phosphate rock in Norway, pitched as the world’s largest, is big enough to satisfy world demand for fertilisers, solar panels and electric car batteries over the next 50 years, according to the company exploiting the resource.www.euractiv.com
This discovery doubles the world reserves of phosphate, the 'P' in LFP batteries.
Jeff Dahn should join some MIC lobby group like RAND corp or Institute for study of war and learn about geopolitics
From wiki:
The world's reserves of tungsten are 3,200,000 tonnes; they are mostly located in China (1,800,000 t), Canada (290,000 t),[56] Russia (160,000 t), Vietnam (95,000 t) and Bolivia. As of 2017, China, Vietnam and Russia are the leading suppliers with 79,000, 7,200 and 3,100 tonnes, respectively. Canada had ceased production in late 2015 due to the closure of its sole tungsten mine.
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They are only talking about doping with a small amount of Tungsten.Jeff Dahn should join some MIC lobby group like RAND corp or Institute for study of war and learn about geopolitics
From wiki:
The world's reserves of tungsten are 3,200,000 tonnes; they are mostly located in China (1,800,000 t), Canada (290,000 t),[56] Russia (160,000 t), Vietnam (95,000 t) and Bolivia. As of 2017, China, Vietnam and Russia are the leading suppliers with 79,000, 7,200 and 3,100 tonnes, respectively. Canada had ceased production in late 2015 due to the closure of its sole tungsten mine.
They may find another substance which can do the same job.
If this was a necessary commodity, it would become more valuable, hence more reserves would be economic.
Tesla already has everything that Jeff has done here:- DBE, Single Crystal Cathode, Cobalt free high Nickel battery.
The value is that Jeff is achieving very similar results via a completely different path.
Jeff's processes may be cheaper than Tesla current processes, but using them in production is probably 10 years away which is enough time to find more Tungsten.
Jeff's job is to determine what combinations work, Tesla will chose the combinations they like, and raw materials supplies will be a consideration.
Besides Canadians are always such nice polite people, we should be polite in return.
EXCLUSIVE: Inside the Tesla-funded Jeff Dahn Research Group
Electric Autonomy finds out what makes the Jeff Dahn Research Group so appealing to Tesla in their goal to build to world's best batterieselectricautonomy.ca
The first questions is whether or not this “Silicon carbide,” is the silicon process described on battery day,
Battery day:-
- Raw Metallurgical Silicon
- Stabilise surface - though elastic ion-conduction polymer coating
- Robust network - Highly elastic binder + electrode design,
Silicon carbide is expensive but it does seem possible that Tesla could make their own Silicon Carbide which they may needed to do for volume battery manufacture.
However, it doesn't seem that Silicon Carbide is is the silicon process described on battery day.
Drew has also said that all the benefits of battery day might not be realised until 2026, but hunch would be that silicon will be one of the last benefits.
There are implications for the Roadster because perhaps neither silicon path will be fast enough for Roadster deliveries to start in 2024/2025.
However, one form of producing Silicon Carbide seems arguably better than the battery day silicon process.
I assume that Tesla can control this process to grow single crystals of the desired size.
This version does mention polymers, so could perhaps be the battery day process
Still this is making the SiC itself into a polymer not adding a polymer coating, unless this polymer is used to coat silicon. (then converted to Silicon Carbide).
What his all means for the Roadster timeline is hard to guess, I am now not sure if silicon anodes are a mandatory requirement.
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