Any P90DL owners got their 100 kWh battery upgrade yet?

[d.c.palmer]

What did Tesla say when you asked them about it?

Nothing, basically. I've tried Customer Support, Tech Support, my service centre, the head of the service centre... Basically, no one claims to know anything - but they promise to call me back once they know something (which never happens). I've just e-mailed the Tesla director for Europe to try to get some better clarification, but haven't had a response yet.

How to hold Tesla to account? Well, here in the UK we do have some fairly strong consumer protection laws plus agencies such as the Advertising Standards Authority (to which one could refer them in regards to their press release about P100D upgrades). However, I don't think it will come to that - I rather suspect that Tesla won't want any (more) bad publicity at this critical juncture (Model 3 delays, "junk" bond status).

 

[smac]

@d.c.palmer I have Georg El's mobile number if you don't get any email reply.

It's what I had to resort to following a mess up with initial registration and subsequent government fines

I chased and chased via email after desperately trying to escalate things (I was fed up of being constantly referred back to the DS who'd cocked up in the first place, while still receiving ever more threatening letters from DVLA) .. In the end I ended up phoning Georg's mobile directly.

TBH Tesla UK couldn't organise a Christmas booze up in the Guinness Factory

 

[d.c.palmer]

I have Georg El's mobile number if you don't get any email reply.

Thanks, smac - I might get back to you in a few days... ;-)

 

[bhzmark]

Do UK owners have the escalation thing in mytesla?

 

[Tech_Guy]

I think its safe to say that when these do start happening they will roll out like Tesla usually does to California and North America cars first... Im sure it will be posted here when it happens...

From my understanding the delay in offering these battery upgrades was due to production issues and shortages with the 100 packs. I recall reading quite a few threads where someone was going to take delivery of their new 100 or p100d Tesla and had the delivery delayed due to battery pack issues. Since the 100 and p100d model Teslas have the same battery pack obviously the demand / priority is very high for these for new vehicles vs upgrades.

 

[d.c.palmer]

From my understanding the delay in offering these battery upgrades was due to production issues and shortages with the 100 packs

I don't buy this. Sure, the 100 kWh pack was in short supply initially: that's why it was only available in P100D form. Then Tesla made the pack available to all - and scrapped the 90 kWh pack. So I really can't see that there's a supply issue any more.

No, I think that Tesla can't be bothered. They made a half-hearted promise to try to stop us from cancelling our P90DL orders, but never had a serious plan for actually fulfilling this. They've led us down the proverbial garden path with weasel words about availability and letting us know when it will be available - but I think they're too focused on Model 3 to really bother with existing customers.

Let's hope I'm wrong - otherwise my next car won't be a Tesla.

 

[d.c.palmer]

Do UK owners have the escalation thing in mytesla?

Thanks for drawing this to my attention - I had to dig around to find it, but have now sent a message. Having said this, last time I spoke to Tesla support on the 'phone they promised to 'escalate' the issue and get back to me - and never did. So, I entirely expect this to happen again.

The sound of silence is deafening.

 

[whitex]

I don't buy this. Sure, the 100 kWh pack was in short supply initially: that's why it was only available in P100D form. Then Tesla made the pack available to all - and scrapped the 90 kWh pack. So I really can't see that there's a supply issue any more.

No, I think that Tesla can't be bothered. They made a half-hearted promise to try to stop us from cancelling our P90DL orders, but never had a serious plan for actually fulfilling this. They've led us down the proverbial garden path with weasel words about availability and letting us know when it will be available - but I think they're too focused on Model 3 to really bother with existing customers.

Let's hope I'm wrong - otherwise my next car won't be a Tesla.

Lesson from all this: always insist on a written guarantees with deadlines and such. As long you had the money and they had the product, you have the advantage. Once you handed over the money, now your options are much more limited. I learned that after the promised me 691hp via OTA, I should have had them put it in writing (691hp by date X, or full money back) - sadly that is when I learned my lesson - wish someone has told me ahead of time. When buying the next Tesla though, I asked for any written guarantees for EAP or FSD, none was offered, so didn't buy it - as simple as that. Not regretting it one bit. Going forward, I am not trusting any Tesla promises unless they come as a contract with deadlines and specific remedies spelled out (like full money back for the car).

 

[d.c.palmer]

Well, we sort of have this in writing:

New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World

 

[d.c.palmer]

Lesson from all this: always insist on a written guarantees with deadlines and such

- but good general advice anyway - thanks!

 

[Tech_Guy]

I don't buy this. Sure, the 100 kWh pack was in short supply initially: that's why it was only available in P100D form. Then Tesla made the pack available to all - and scrapped the 90 kWh pack. So I really can't see that there's a supply issue any more.
....
Let's hope I'm wrong - otherwise my next car won't be a Tesla.

You may not believe this but was able to confirm it with Tesla. Honestly I’m glad they made us all wait to perfect the product before they started upgrades! They are on revisionD of the 100 battery pack now they originaly delivered A packs to the first orders of P100Ds.

Also please keep in mind how the 100 rolled out it was originaly only p100d orders that got 100 packs then months later as production allowed they started to sell the 100d models using the same packs. That requires them to increase the limited production by a large margin to cover all 100d s and x vehicles as well as the p100d. It’s also a change from how they handled it previously. Tesla had different packs for different cars looking just at the 90 packs for example they had a base 90 pack a performance 90 pack and a ludicrous 90 pack... and multiple revisions of all of the above biased upon build date of the car. My car has a v3 90 pack in it that was released in June of 2016 any cars built after that date had my pack or newer...

Tesla consolidated all those packs into 1 which puts a large burden on production of those packs. Then they started having issues I’m guessing related to scaling up100 pack production that was causing 100 battery packs to be Dead On Arrival which if you search you can find quite a few thread on that here... suffice to say it’s sorted now and we should see these start to roll out as I stated above, likely California cars first and spreading out from there...

 

[d.c.palmer]

Thanks for the update, Tech_Guy! Let's hope the updates are rolled out soon...

 

[sakimano]

That's great news.

Slightly off topic (or at least tangential)... anyone know if a P90D can still be upgraded to a P90DL?

 

[Tech_Guy]

That's great news.

Slightly off topic (or at least tangential)... anyone know if a P90D can still be upgraded to a P90DL?

All you can do is ask Tesla and your service center... I think I saw some posts suggesting that they will no longer do the upgrade likely due to the issues they had with the 90 ludicrous packs

 

[DrComputer]

That's great news.

Slightly off topic (or at least tangential)... anyone know if a P90D can still be upgraded to a P90DL?

Since there is no difference between the P90D and P90DL battery pack, there is no reason they can't still do the upgrade. It was really just a $10K software "uncorking" fee like they've been giving away for free to the the 75 and 75D people. My Model X P90D was upgraded to a P90DL. The only "hardware" was the $1.50 plastic underline they stuck on the rear end under the P90D logo.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You may not believe this but was able to confirm it with Tesla.

Sorry, but I don't buy this non-availability excuse. I'm sure Tesla said so to you, but I'm not buying it.

At the very latest Tesla could - and should - have made 100 kWh packs available to pre-ordered P100D upgraders before 100D shipments started. At that moment in time they clearly had pack availability in volume, but chose to prioritize a new volume production model instead. How else could they have added a new model using the same pack. And, obviously, it has been over half a year since 100D started...

Sorry, not buying it anymore. Words are cheap. The 100 kWh upgrades were promised for early 2017. Tesla decided to redirect those packs to new 100D buyers instead.

Now I just hope Tesla delivers in the end to those affected. Hopefully they will.

I feel a bit personally about this, since I dodged a bullet due to AP2. I would have been on that line as well, otherwise.

 

[Tech_Guy]

Since there is no difference between the P90D and P90DL battery pack, there is no reason they can't still do the upgrade.

Ahh but there is a difference, for example in the Tesla part catalog with the 90 packs Tesla lists the packs by collums under headings describing the pack type. As you can see below for example looking at the last two collum headings “small -large” in reference to the larger performance motor “p-d non ludicrous” specifically for a performance dual motor car ordered without ludicrous, and the next collum over ludicrous s &x. See below

as you can see some pack part numbers are coded specifically for cars ordered with ludicrous and some are coded for performance non ludicrous and some overlap. The data I’ve seen suggests that most non ludicrous cars that upgraded will only meet v1 ludicrous specs and have limits set at 1500 amps and 450kW output vs a car ordered with ludicrous that would have 1600 amps and around 500kW of power also known as v2 and v3 packs. However if you have an overlapping part number with the ludicrous colum it’s likely the upgrade will give you more then v1 power levels...

I suspect Tesla stopped doing these ludicrous upgrades around February of this year due to the software launch mode limits aka counter gate. Breif recap with 8.0 software Tesla introduced software that kept track of your cars launch mode and full throttle presses etc and used those counters to reduce your cars performance. I first noticed this in September 2016 on my 3 month old car as it lost a large chunk of performance after applying the 8.0 update. Almost 6 months later Tesla admitted this and in February 2017 Tesla rolled out part one of a software update to restore power to effected cars. Since Tesla said they would no longer control a cars performance via software they instead stoped sale on ludicrous upgrades and possibly started removing ludicrous from 90 inventory cars as well, as I recall reading on the forum...

 

[Tech_Guy]

Sorry, but I don't buy this non-availability excuse. I'm sure Tesla said so to you, but I'm not buying it.

Looking at the chart I posted above should give you an idea of how many different battery packs Tesla produced before the 100 was released. Also if you notice the last row at the bottom of the chart for the 100 pack vs the section above for 90 packs... note the lack of multiple part number etc on the 100 battery as all cars use the same battery (revision c at the time of this screenshot now on revision D of the 100). While this is great for streamlining production at Tesla it undeniably puts a very large demand on that one part. The data I gathered about the 100 packs and production issues was just from reading the forums daily and watching threads with “100” in them. There was a period where a high volume of 100 cars battery packs were DOA and now that time is past these upgrades are slowly rolling out as confirmed by Tesla...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Looking at the chart I posted above should give you an idea of how many different battery packs Tesla produced before the 100 was released. Also if you notice the last row at the bottom of the chart for the 100 pack vs the section above for 90 packs... note the lack of multiple part number etc on the 100 battery as all cars use the same battery (revision c at the time of this screenshot now on revision D of the 100). While this is great for streamlining production at Tesla it undeniably puts a very large demand on that one part. The data I gathered about the 100 packs and production issues was just from reading the forums daily and watching threads with “100” in them. There was a period where a high volume of 100 cars battery packs were DOA and now that time is past these upgrades are slowly rolling out as confirmed by Tesla...

Oh, I don't question there were production constraints on the 100 kWh pack.

But I'm speculating Tesla bypassed existing pre-orders from the P90DL crowd and gave their packs to newer 100D orderers. The reason isn't production constraints then, the reason would be they just bypassed you.

 

[DrComputer]

Ahh but there is a difference, for example in the Tesla part catalog with the 90 packs Tesla lists the packs by collums under headings describing the pack type. As you can see below for example looking at the last two collum headings “small -large” in reference to the larger performance motor “p-d non ludicrous” specifically for a performance dual motor car ordered without ludicrous, and the next collum over ludicrous s &x. See below
View attachment 262015

as you can see some pack part numbers are coded specifically for cars ordered with ludicrous and some are coded for performance non ludicrous and some overlap. The data I’ve seen suggests that most non ludicrous cars that upgraded will only meet v1 ludicrous specs and have limits set at 1500 amps and 450kW output vs a car ordered with ludicrous that would have 1600 amps and around 500kW of power also known as v2 and v3 packs. However if you have an overlapping part number with the ludicrous colum it’s likely the upgrade will give you more then v1 power levels...

I suspect Tesla stopped doing these ludicrous upgrades around February of this year due to the software launch mode limits aka counter gate. Breif recap with 8.0 software Tesla introduced software that kept track of your cars launch mode and full throttle presses etc and used those counters to reduce your cars performance. I first noticed this in September 2016 on my 3 month old car as it lost a large chunk of performance after applying the 8.0 update. Almost 6 months later Tesla admitted this and in February 2017 Tesla rolled out part one of a software update to restore power to effected cars. Since Tesla said they would no longer control a cars performance via software they instead stoped sale on ludicrous upgrades and possibly started removing ludicrous from 90 inventory cars as well, as I recall reading on the forum...

I guess I can go try to look at the part number on my pack. Since the Model X P90D came out well after the Model S P90D's started shipping, maybe they used the upgraded packs in the X. We've had our TeslaClubLA drag race days at Irwindale Speedway and my upgraded P90DL Model X did the exact same times as another member's Model X that was purchased with the Ludacris package from the factory. So I guess a look at the part number will tell if one can expect better performance from an upgrade or not.