Chevy Bolt charging - totally confused

[brucet999]

Ah... I get it. Is there even a 'friend'?

Thanks for wasting my time when I was trying to help.

For a parting gift, a 24 amp EVSE will charge a Bolt more miles per hour at your friend's house than a Tesla will, especially the X. Home charging favors the cars with the higher real world MPGe. Depending on the Tesla model and your driving route, the difference can be as high as 37% for a Model X used in congested traffic. ie - you need to go somewhere, instead of wait 2 hours for a charge, you must wait 3.

Despite your cynical reaction to a legitimate criticism of GM's OEM EVSE, your other answers have in fact been helpful. Steve may be able to avoid buying an expensive after-market EVSE by my making a 14-30 to 5-15 adapter for him to charge at 2.88 kW; probably just enough overnight replenishment for most days.

As to your "parting gift", if my 62-year-old friend could afford a Model X, he probably wouldn't be spending his days driving all over SoCal in order to earn a living and wouldn't be looking to replace his high-mileage Prius with an even-more-thrifty Bolt.

 

[McRat]

Despite your cynical reaction to a legitimate criticism of GM's OEM EVSE, your other answers have in fact been helpful. Steve may be able to avoid buying an expensive after-market EVSE by my making a 14-30 to 5-15 adapter for him to charge at 2.88 kW; probably just enough overnight replenishment for most days.

As to your "parting gift", if my 62-year-old friend could afford a Model X, he probably wouldn't be spending his days driving all over SoCal in order to earn a living and wouldn't be looking to replace his high-mileage Prius with an even-more-thrifty Bolt.

It's not legitimate criticism for a company who has lost billions in lawsuits over rare safety problems based on doctored data. From the Corvair to Gen 5 Camaro, GM has always been a target for deep pocket litigation. Tesla has a higher threshold for tolerance for litigation. You might remember the Volts exploding into flames making headlines. It wasn't true but made great news and lawyers were drooling.

The GM 120v 12a/8a system can be used safely in any US home with an open standard outlet with nothing else plugged into the circuit. 12a is the safest draw on a 15a breaker or 5-15 outlet. The fact the EVSE can be used at 240v x 12 amps is serendipity due to foreign countries not having 120v access.

US 240 circuits are a very mixed and dangerous can of worms. From old aluminum wiring, to RV adapters, nobody should charge a 32 amp 240 load without a licensed electrician involved, and REALLY avoid 40 or 48 amp charging. That can be scary stuff.

GM does sell home EVSE systems installed by licensed professionals to insure safety at high amperage rates. Just ask your Chevrolet or Cadillac dealer. This is the safest route, not just handing random folk 40 amp EVSEs that can be plugged into virtually any socket anywhere.

 

[EV-lutioin]

DC fast charging is a $750 option on the Bolt?? Assuming that many of the people buying the Bolt will be first time EV owners, Chevy ssure made charging the darn thing a confusing mess.

Chevy Bolt DC Charging question: 80kW or 50kW? Here’s what we know and why we’re still confused

 

[McRat]

DC fast charging is a $750 option on the Bolt?? Assuming that many of the people buying the Bolt will be first time EV owners, Chevy ssure made charging the darn thing a confusing mess.

Chevy Bolt DC Charging question: 80kW or 50kW? Here’s what we know and why we’re still confused

It might be confusing to you, but most the EV/plug-in owners in the US just stick a plug into a wall outlet and the other end into their car.

That could be difficult to understand by people who have never experienced J1772 charging.

Didn't DC Fast Charging cost $2500 for a Tesla? Later they made it a mandatory option even if you live on an island or an area with no DCFC support?

 

[brucet999]

DC fast charging is a $750 option on the Bolt?? Assuming that many of the people buying the Bolt will be first time EV owners, Chevy ssure made charging the darn thing a confusing mess.

Chevy Bolt DC Charging question: 80kW or 50kW? Here’s what we know and why we’re still confused

One might point out that it is a much cheaper option than Tesla's SuperCharging, which cost $2500 when it was released. Of course, the Bolt version doesn't have a network of free DC fast charging stations to go with it.
Making it an option could be seen as a "discount" for those who will drive only locally and would therefor not need fast DC charging.

 

[EV-lutioin]

It might be confusing to you, but most the EV/plug-in owners in the US just stick a plug into a wall outlet and the other end into their car.

That could be difficult to understand by people who have never experienced J1772 charging.

Didn't DC Fast Charging cost $2500 for a Tesla? Later they made it a mandatory option even if you live on an island or an area with no DCFC support?

Most people will never take a road trip in their Bolt? I guess that's why EV's are still a hard sell. I have experienced J1772 charging and... yuck.

 

[TexasEV]

Didn't DC Fast Charging cost $2500 for a Tesla? Later they made it a mandatory option even if you live on an island or an area with no DCFC support?

No it didn't. DC fast charging was built into every Tesla Model S ever made. The early 60s had a $2000 fee to activate it (similar to how the fee to activate autopilot hardware works now) when purchased, or $2500 later. All other cars had it included in the price of the car. I wouldn't characterize a feature of the car that's included in the price as a "mandatory option". The DC fast charging capability was to allow convenient travel and to future-proof charging options, nothing to do with whether or not you live in an area with superchargers.

 

[croman]

S40 required hardware to chademo.

@McRat provided excellent information but I'm not sure OP is actually grateful.

Almost all EVs are this way. I didn't even get chademo in my leaf as it seemed pointless. in 3.5 years would've used once.

 

[McRat]

S40 required hardware to chademo.

@McRat provided excellent information but I'm not sure OP is actually grateful.

Almost all EVs are this way. I didn't even get chademo in my leaf as it seemed pointless. in 3.5 years would've used once.

Yes, I think all he was trying to point out was that a $69k-$169k Tesla BEV comes with a more powerful EVSE than the $37.5k-$45k Chevrolet Bolt EV is sold with, completely ignoring the fact that the safest route to take for L2 charging is to have a certified electrician involved. And the OP is also ignoring that BMW/MB/VW/Nissan/Ford/Etc, do not come with high power L2 EVSEs either.

 

[scaesare]

But his car has a 32 amp onboard charger. This exceeds the safe capabilities of the dryer plug. He can charge at 24 amps safely in that outlet. This is 20 miles per hour. Or 5 hours to gain 120 miles.

Pedantic note: That wuld be 6 hours to gain 120 miles of range at 20MPH.

 

[McRat]

Pedantic note: That wuld be 6 hours to gain 120 miles of range at 20MPH.

Yeah, typo, thanks.

 

[croman]

Tesla having the ability to take in more juice is solely because it has a larger battery. Of note: My leaf accepts 30A/240V (6.6kwh). Its battery is only 24kwh, so it takes 3.5 to 4 hours to fully charge. My S60D will take 48A/240V (11.5kwh) (~6 hours). Proportionally, the LEAF actually charges faster. It only gets worse for Tesla as you get to a 100kwh pack (takes 9 hours at max L2).

So the Bolt should've offered more than 30A but that's also more than sufficient for nightly charging and people who buy EVs need to understand the advantages daily home charging provides and upgrade their house accordingly.

As mentioned, hiring an electrician for a safe 14-50 outlet makes a lot more sense than using an old, potentially hazardous 30A outlet designed for intermittent power draws from kitchen appliances. It cost me $300 + a $300 EVSE (GE Wattstation 6-50 plug in). I still use that EVSE since it can charge my LEAF and my Tesla when I need it (6.6kwh is more than enough for my daily needs as it will charge my Tesla in 9 hours if I somehow completely drain my battery).

The leafs prior to 2013 only had 3.3kwh onboard and that likely was a big issue for EV adoption.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

GM just kept it cheap and simple. GM's not really committing to anything with the Bolt.

For 240V US charging you can get an EVSE that's hard-wired or has the appropriate plug.
If the major brands don't have what you want there are people who build OpenEVSE based EVSEs with whatever you want for a plug.

 

[McRat]

...
So the Bolt should've offered more than 30A ...

Correction, it's 32a and 9.x hours from 0% to 100%. But 0% is a rare situation, and 100% is not always needed.

Interesting tidbit. Your house and wire gauges play a part in charging times. Bigger gauge wires, shorter runs, and higher supply voltage will decrease charging time using the exact same EVSE. Example, my house will charge a G2 Volt in 4.0 hours even though the docs say 4.5h. Why? I have 124 vac legs for some reason and a 6 ga short run 14-50R and 400 amp service (not a typo).

But that same car charges in 5 hours at work because we are 208v industrial power there.

 

[croman]

Forgot about those extra 2 amps but you need a special EVSE to get them so most won't. Most EVSEs, I know of, are limited to 24amps, 30amps or 40/50amp (Juicebox).

 

[McRat]

Forgot about those extra 2 amps but you need a special EVSE to get them so most won't. Most EVSEs, I know of, are limited to 24amps, 30amps or 40/50amp (Juicebox).

There are many models of J1772 EVSEs that are 32 or higher now. I use a Juicebox 40 which is perfect for a 14-50 outlet which is rated at 40 amps continuous.

Here's a 32a: 32A Level 2 EVSE HCS-40 | ClipperCreek

 

[dhanson865]

Tesla having the ability to take in more juice is solely because it has a larger battery. Of note: My leaf accepts 30A/240V (6.6kwh).

That's only true when discussing Chademo/Supercharging aka any high rate DC charging.

L2 is slow enough compared to DC that you can charge as fast as you want no matter the battery size (24 kWh isn't a limiting factor). The only reason Nissan didn't put a faster charger on board is cost. It was just way too expensive in 2011 for anything better.

The only reason they aren't putting a faster charger in now is some combination of cost and price. I'm surprised every year they continue to use the 6.x KW charger instead of upgrading to something better.

But then again my 3.x KW charger on the 2012 Leaf still gets me charged every day. So it isn't unusable, it's just not desirable.

Oh yeah, and your leaf doesn't charge at 30A/240V, it does 27.5A/240V. If it really did 30A it'd be a 7.2KW charger.

 

[croman]

I think it's 30A at 220v actually. I believe it does actually get 30A.

 

[brucet999]

Yes, I think all he was trying to point out was that a $69k-$169k Tesla BEV comes with a more powerful EVSE than the $37.5k-$45k Chevrolet Bolt EV is sold with, completely ignoring the fact that the safest route to take for L2 charging is to have a certified electrician involved. And the OP is also ignoring that BMW/MB/VW/Nissan/Ford/Etc, do not come with high power L2 EVSEs either.

Might I point out that all of the aforementioned cars have short range batteries? Also, the $35,000 Model 3 will come with the same EVSE as those expensive MS and MX, so why can't Bolt come with an equally good one?

All of those other cars with puny EVSEs don't have enough range to be useful for my friend. That's why I suggested that he look at the Bolt, with good range, peppy performance, ample headroom and decent cargo space at a pretty good price.

And why, pray tell, would one have to have a certified electrician involved to plug into a 240V outlet? I have not read of a single fire caused by people plugging EVs into 240V outlets. My 50-year-old 10-30 outlet has been safely charging my S for 16 months.

Why are you so amped up over my criticism of an unnecessarily puny EVSE supplied with an otherwise good Bolt EV?

 

[dhanson865]

I think it's 30A at 220v actually. I believe it does actually get 30A.

Please don't tell me what you believe if you aren't sure. I'm telling you how it is.

If you are in the US residential power is 240V or 120V, there is no 220V in the US, that is just slang that isn't technically accurate.

There is 208V at businesses but you'll still charge at 27.5 amps.

Range Chart - My Nissan Leaf Forum

----------- Japan --- USA/Canada --- The World ------ USA/Canada
Amps --- 200 volts --- 208 volts --- 230 volts ------- 240volts

 16  ------ 3.2kW   ------ 3.3kW   --- 3.7kW ------ 3.8kW
27.5 ------ 5.5kW   ------ 5.7kW   --- 6.3kW ------ 6.6kW

if you want to disprove that grab an OBDII dongle and the Leafspy app and give me a screenshot of your car charging above 27.x amps and then I'll be convinced and will believe that it pulls 30 amps.