JRP3
Hyperactive Member
A more realistic way to look at vaccine effectiveness
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
Sort of. However, lower “efficacy” can mean more total infections which impairs “herd immunity” and allows the virus to keep mutating into new variants over time.
Also: “Long Covid”. A significant percentage (10-20%) of unvaccinated people with non-severe symptomatic infections develop some symptoms (due to ongoing immune system reactions) that continue for weeks or several months past their primarily Covid-19 viral illness. It isn’t clear to me to what degree this also happens with vaccinated people who become similarly infected.
So, “efficacy” is not unimportant and Pfizer and Moderna really are better than AstraZeneca and (single dose) J&J despite the fact that all of these vaccines are very effective against severe disease and death.
Also: “Long Covid”. A significant percentage (10-20%) of unvaccinated people with non-severe symptomatic infections develop some symptoms (due to ongoing immune system reactions) that continue for weeks or several months past their primarily Covid-19 viral illness. It isn’t clear to me to what degree this also happens with vaccinated people who become similarly infected.
So, “efficacy” is not unimportant and Pfizer and Moderna really are better than AstraZeneca and (single dose) J&J despite the fact that all of these vaccines are very effective against severe disease and death.
Last edited:
While they may be better and preferable, any approved vaccine is better than none. So whatever is available. I've also read that if someone gets the J&J shot that they should follow up with a mRNA dose to get to the preferred efficacy but last I looked CDC was not recommending this.
Going with J&J when vaccines were hard to get and Covid was prevalent made sense but maybe not when vaccination is easily obtained and there is a choice.
Using an mRNA shot as a booster to an original single-dose J&J shot seems sensible but hasn’t been put through a formal test yet. J&J is somewhat similar to AstraZenica’s vaccine (although it’s better) and there has been some testing of an mRNA booster shot with AZ in the UK with favorable initial results.
J&J is also already conducting their own trial test using a two-dose regimen. The reason J&J is only single-dose today is because they chose to test it that way for marketing and business reasons because they thought they would get a good enough result. And they were right. However, a two-dose strategy will very likely give better immunity results.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Image above via: Coronavirus
Related Article: The Delta Variant Isn't Just Hyper-Contagious. It Also Grows More Rapidly Inside You
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yeah for the first time in weeks my wife has mentioned that she is seeing people in her hospital with COVID again. It had been down to just a rare case. Sadly the Pennsylvania county I live in has some of the lowest fully vaccination rates in our state, so while the state is over all in good shape, while in my county they actually cancelled the mass vaccination clinics weeks ago because not enough people showed up. And this is not a political thing as my wife said she has several black males with diabetes and other complications who are refusing to get vaccinated despite her telling them they could very well die if they get the new variant of COVID. She thinks she is convincing a few people though. I've heard stories that the 1919 Flu killed more in its last wave because people just stopped doing anything to stop it out of weariness with the quarantines and other measures. I hope that doesn't happen this time.US daily cases up significantly from the low last month
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Maybe COVID is not over! The sooner we actually try to eliminate COVID in the US the better. I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of focus on this goal. Also disappointed that the administration is not focusing more on meeting the needs of red states and trying to figure out how to convince people to get vaccinated. Not sure what the solution is but it seems to me this should be of the highest priority. The lower the number of cases, the higher the priority should be!US daily cases up significantly from the low last month
Hopefully. But it seems that many people are still sceptical for some reason that COVID is all that bad and that vaccines and wearing masks are worse.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes I suspect that for most it's just another reason that "supports" their anti vax stance. Once it's approved they'll just fall back on their other excuses.
Same in CA.
The hospitals and clinics that my extended family members work at are admitting delta COVID patients more these days.
Since back to school is coming up, CA today released new guidelines:
- no mask => alternative (remote) learning
- no distancing (not even 3’) required
- schools and bus drivers are required to provide a mask if a student forgets their mask
- mask wearing can be waived with approved medical exemptions, but still need to wear a plastic shield
- schools are required to provide full-time in-person learning. No more partial day or hybrid schedule—unless it’s an additional option to a full-time schedule
- exposed individuals of known infected are allowed to go to school as long as they don’t show symptoms, but need a weekly test.
It has been so thoroughly politicized that unfortunately there probably is nothing anyone in the current administration can do to get those people to take the vaccine.
Today's county map from Per capita covid-19 cases and deaths
shows how regional COVID has become.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
6 fully vaccinated people who attended an outdoor wedding caught the Delta variant, but people with Pfizer and Moderna shots survived, study says
The infections among attendees of a 92-person wedding in April were in people over 50, a study says. One who'd gotten the Covaxin vaccine died.
Yesterday only a handful of states were of a reddish color
Have we flattened the curve in the US? - Johns Hopkins
Now nearly half have a red tint.
Same in many countries, numbers are 'looking up'.
Delta, complacency and stupidity at work.
Have we flattened the curve in the US? - Johns Hopkins
Now nearly half have a red tint.
Same in many countries, numbers are 'looking up'.
Delta, complacency and stupidity at work.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I agree with that, but the solution is not to just throw up their hands and say there is nothing to be done. Have to figure out how to convince (or force) people. It's totally ok to force people to get the vaccine if they want to do certain activities or jobs, once it is out of EUA. Totally normal, for the good of society.
I would say the US is desperately trying to flatten the curve. We're doing all we can to bring the numbers up to keep the trend line flat. Hopefully we won't have too much overshoot.
All pretty predictable so far. Will likely be fairly rapidly self-limiting. Would be nice if we could get approval of the vaccine for the youngest kids ASAP, so younger kids could be vaccinated. They're vulnerable and have no choice right now but to remain that way. It also causes a lot of stress for otherwise vaccinated families.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Well, duh, that's because these are political issues, not medical ones.
Just fire all health personnel, fewer troublemakers, and it additionally saves money...
Tennessee's former top vaccine official: 'I am afraid for my state'
Similar threads
