Sunvalleylaw
Member
Unfortunately, for better or worse, Elon is currently the face of the company, however, which is unfortunate.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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Just my opinion:
A big NO to number 4 in that list. I don't want Musk back at Tesla. I want him to step aside in favor of a competent not-lunatic CEO at Tesla. Let him stay at Twitter and run that into the ground. Musk is toxic to Tesla right now. People are choosing to buy inferior cars because Musk is the face of Tesla and Musk has gone bonkers.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Funny thing about this we’re told not to recycle pizza boxes specifically. Apparently there is too much food waste in thee.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Telling a neighbor that they should just make friends with the criminals who invaded their house and have a great plan for how they should lease out a room to the thugs is NOT being a supporter of the neighbor, even if you give them free internet.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
I’d prefer number one on the list have twitter replace Tesla and number 4 be to focus attention on twitter
Sometimes, the alternative is to simply live without for most things. A lot of things are not going to kill us if we didn't have that one thing...or, one can pay more $$ possibly.
Dikkie Dik
If gets hard, use hammer
FWIW, Elon’s ‘peace proposal’ wasn’t all that wacky.
It is painfully clear that the west and NATO are giving the Ukraine just enough weapons to not lose the war and not enough to win it.
No tanks, fighter planes in sufficient quantities at least to make a real difference.
So what do we want? Years and years of war that utterly destroys Oekraine and Russia at tremendous cost of life or give Russia a way to somewhat safe face, stop the war, rebuild Oekraine and isolate Russia like we do North Korea?
It’s probably not a popular opinion in this thread but it’s the most sensible thing to do imo.
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ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Well it’s good to know at least someone is grateful based off that tweet.
Afghanistan vs USSR comes to mind reading your post.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
I suggest you head over to the Russia/Ukraine thread and tell them all about your theories. I'm sure they'll treat with the respect you deserve.
Maybe if instead he proposed giving Russia a chunk of the Netherlands for "peace" you would have a different attitude? I mean, why not?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
This was discussed back when he made the proposal. You glossed over completely that his proposal involved permanently giving up Crimea to Russia. It also suggested to recognize sham elections and also give a path to permanently give up the 4 disputed regions to Russia (his suggestion for UN observers are worthless to ensure fair elections during war conditions, otherwise this war wouldn't have gone on so long in the first place; this is putting aside the question if referendums like this are even valid in the first place). Both of these suggestions rewards Russia and tells them that launching a war means the west will give up land to them to appease them. His plan wasn't purely a cease fire.
The equivalent with North Korea, is if we asked South Korea to permanently give up a chunk of land to North Korea. Can you not imagine the reaction of South Koreans if we did that?
Another problem is you missed the timing at which he made the proposal. He made it back in October when Russia was losing very badly in the battlefield and really would have loved for Ukraine to cease fire right then.
You also missed that this decision should be one made by Ukraine, not by "we" in the west and especially not by Elon. That was what pissed off people in Ukraine the most, the idea that the decision is to be made by the west. Ukraine is the one bearing the brunt of the effects, so it's really up to them when they feel they should negotiate a cease fire.
As for the idea that giving Russia a chance to "save face" and somehow this will result in lasting peace, it seems laughable given how previous deals have failed. All Russia will do is use the chance to rebuild and further their grip on the regions they hold (and plan to take more when they can). If Ukraine is to have a chance to take back their territory, it would be to take it back while Russia is at its weakest, and then cease fire afterwards and defend it.
There's just so many things that made his "peace plan" a horrible suggestion that largely benefits Russia, rather than Ukraine.
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Dikkie Dik
If gets hard, use hammer
Russian separatists shot down MH17 in 2014.
I have every reason to go full Mel Gibson on Russia.
The Netherlands is home to more than 100.000 Ukrainian refugees and I have personally made round trips picking up refugees from and bringing goods to the Polish border.
My opinion is that the only way to end this war is for NATO to step in which would start WW III.
Russia will just go on throwing bodies into the fire and that this war will last for years at tremendous cost. You might not like my opinion, fine.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's the false dilemma that Russia keeps pushing and apparently a lot of people in the "west" have bought hook, line, and sinker. There are many different ways to end the war that does not involve permanently giving up territory to Russia, nor WWIII. IMO the most likely is Ukraine and Russia keeps fighting until they reach a stalemate and request a ceasefire (with the controlled territory not necessary back to the point before the war or before 2014).
Yes, it might drag on for years, but really it's up to Ukraine if they want to continue until then. As discussed in the Russia/Ukraine thread, those that have tracked the weapons being supplied to Ukraine will notice that NATO is taking a "boiling frog" approach to supplying weapons. It's a slower ramp up, but NATO is now supplying weapons to Ukraine that Russia would have found utterly unacceptable months earlier.
Dikkie Dik
If gets hard, use hammer
That’s basically my point.
I would like to add that we in the west and especially in Europe have dropped the ball in an epic way in the years leading up to this war.
The dependency on Russian oil and gas, not stepping in much sooner when Russia occupied the Crimea, MH17 -the list goes on. We turned a blind eye in our addiction to fossil fuels and the world would be a different place if we acted sooner.
Point is were faced with an awful war that needs to stop and I ‘get’ Elon’s position -flawed as it might be.
I know but what Ukraine really needs is air power. Problem with western fighter planes is that they require a lot of maintenance which would require NATO presence.
I get that Ukraine can make up its own mind but there’s still something like diplomacy.
Anyway let’s agree that it’s a horrible situation and that we’re all hoping for the best outcome.
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