FSD discussion

[Ogre]

My big concern about FSD is it’s not clear how long we’re going to linger in between being a little useful and attaining truly market shifting functionality.

We’re apparently flirting with “Hands Free”, but it took a long time to get here after it was “Really good” as essentially a toy/ test pilot technology.

Hands free is nice, but I don’t think we’re going to drive sales in a huge way until Tesla is capable of true eyes free “I’m going to nap now” capabilities. If my 80 year old mom won’t trust it to drive her home after dark when she’s visiting, we’re not there yet.

Forgive the horrible chart, but where the line ends is where most of the dispute begins. How soon do we get from here to Robotaxi? I suspect the number of edge cases will keep piling up and it’s going to continue being next year’s technology for some time. I know logarithmic progress is real, but I think people under-estimate the complexity of the environment we live in.

I still think there is a ton of value in FSD, particularly after we hit hands free capable. It just feels like the more progress we make, the further out Robotaxi seems to get.

 

[Snerruc]

I find this to be 100% suspect... as in you do not have FSD B enabled... in my vehicle FSD beta handles majority of RH turns even on one way streets with cars parked to the corners of the intersection...

i cant remember if FSD beta will make a right turn just by signaling ... you may have to navigate for it to execute ... will need to check this one

One last time. FSD DOESN'T WORK ON MY CAR! Tesla doesn’t know why. I have to take it in for them to figure out why. Yes I know how to use it. Tests were done with speed -5, chill on, navigate on , etc. car attempted one right turn at stoplight at 40 mph . Fortunately no stopped cross traffic. In another case tried to pull out in front of crossing car and only other drivers amazing reflexes prevented an accident. I’ve talked to a tech person and they wiped and reloaded the software, then put on a different version. None worked. Remotely they can’t find a problem. There are cars it doesn’t work on!

 

[Snerruc]

Yes we know that your non-Tesla car fails 100% of right turns. Also fails to lane keep 50% of the time, couldn't engage most of the time, and doesn't stop 20% of the time for the car in front. This is with over 50k miles of trying to use these other "motion drive pilot assist" or whatever the F they try to brand them.

2019 Tesla Model S Raven.

 

[Singuy]

One last time. FSD DOESN'T WORK ON MY CAR! Tesla doesn’t know why. I have to take it in for them to figure out why. Yes I know how to use it. Tests were done with speed -5, chill on, navigate on , etc. car attempted one right turn at stoplight at 40 mph . Fortunately no stopped cross traffic. In another case tried to pull out in front of crossing car and only other drivers amazing reflexes prevented an accident. I’ve talked to a tech person and they wiped and reloaded the software, then put on a different version. None worked. Remotely they can’t find a problem. There are cars it doesn’t work on!

Sorry is that a sample of one right turn which failed or two?

 

[EVNow]

Hands free is nice, but I don’t think we’re going to drive sales in a huge way until Tesla is capable of true eyes free “I’m going to nap now” capabilities. If my 80 year old mom won’t trust it to drive her home after dark when she’s visiting, we’re not there yet.

What you want is simple - the holy grail nobody has achieved yet (except in small geofenced areas). Obviously nobody knows if and when it can be achieved with current hardware. As the industry joke goes - FSD is always 5 years away.

Personally it is useful (not semi) and I miss it when it doesn’t work because of heavy rain. Personally I get 1 disengagement in 10 miles and few things like handling roundabouts, better lane selection and school zone speed handling will make that 1 in 50 miles - where it gets to be like NOA and very useful.

 

[EVNow]

There are cars it doesn’t work on!

First time I’m hearing about such an issue - but cribbing here about edge issues is not very useful. You make it sound as if it’s a fleet wide issue.

 

[wtlloyd]

I have a picture from the same intersection. Sukumvit in Bangkok.

A smaller CT would do great in Thailand. Lots of trucks but the traffic in and around Bankok is insane.





View attachment 893997

Damn, changed a bit since I turned 21 there, back in '76.
Lines on the street, and everything!

 

[advocate8]

FSD is making life safer for those around the Tesla...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1612255340514672641

Not much of a bike lane in that video, is it?
In most states of the US it’s not just a voluntary safe gap that’s nice for FSD to do, but rather one that is legally mandated. The distance is typically three feet but up to 6 feet in at least one state.
FSD HAS to leave that gap just like it has to stop at a stop sign, or the driver can be cited.

I've been pretty shocked at how good my system's vision is. Not perfect but more than once it has easily picked out pedestrians at night wearing all black before I saw them myself.

 

[SO16]

One last time. FSD DOESN'T WORK ON MY CAR! Tesla doesn’t know why. I have to take it in for them to figure out why. Yes I know how to use it. Tests were done with speed -5, chill on, navigate on , etc. car attempted one right turn at stoplight at 40 mph . Fortunately no stopped cross traffic. In another case tried to pull out in front of crossing car and only other drivers amazing reflexes prevented an accident. I’ve talked to a tech person and they wiped and reloaded the software, then put on a different version. None worked. Remotely they can’t find a problem. There are cars it doesn’t work on!

Will be interesting to know why it doesn’t work on your car.

 

[EVNow]

FSD HAS to leave that gap just like it has to stop at a stop sign, or the driver can be cited.

FSD doesn’t even recognize school zones and reduced speed limits. Chances of getting ticketed for that is 10000x more than for exact distance from a bike

 

[NicoV]

FSD doesn’t even recognize school zones and reduced speed limits. Chances of getting ticketed for that is 10000x more than for exact distance from a bike

I wonder how much road rage FSD will suffer from because of following the rules strictly.

 

[2daMoon]

This attitude will eventually lead to major problems. If you trusted my car on FSD, you would be injured or dead right now.

This is only stating how many/most drivers probably aren't Chuck Yeager caliber testers. It is in no way meant to belittle those who aren't.

You do you. Stay safe. Avoid risks that aren't comfortable.

Accept that some subset of the other beta drivers may be better adapted to letting the car go a little more before taking over safely than you do.

If you know someone elso local with FSD beta that can attempt the same maneuver, that can be a method to compare results.

All of it will produce feedback and data which can be used to make the product better.

None of it requires any particular "attitude which will lead to major problems" as long as each driver is good at knowing their limits and staying comfortably within that envelope of operation.

 

[wk057]

Any chance you could find someone who says FSD works great for them and have them run the same routes in their vehicle?

Every car I've borrowed behaves the same on the same routes. So far I've had no real-world contact with a single person who claims FSD works great.

 

[EVNow]

I wonder how much road rage FSD will suffer from because of following the rules strictly.

Funny enough, FSD doesn’t follow rules strictly. You can set the speed limit over the max, it will cross lines to overtake etc. Where you may get rage is because of indecision… when FSD is taking too long to turn right or go past pedestrians etc.

 

[NicoV]

Funny enough, FSD doesn’t follow rules strictly. You can set the speed limit over the max, it will cross lines to overtake etc. Where you may get rage is because of indecision… when FSD is taking too long to turn right or go past pedestrians etc.

I was more thinking of 30km/h zones where people only drive 30km/h if they see the police.
Or speed limits that change every 50m where nobody bothers to slow down for 50m.
Or bike streets where you should stay behind the bikers in front of you (theoretically, the practice is different).
Crossing a solid line is a top category offence where I live, that’s as bad as driving through a red light.

 

[JRP3]

Accept that some subset of the other beta drivers may be better adapted to letting the car go a little more before taking over safely than you do.

You're really going to keep clinging to this delusion? @wk057 let it drive over a friggin concrete divider, twice, not Chuck Yeager enough for you?

 

[Discoducky]

One last time. FSD DOESN'T WORK ON MY CAR! Tesla doesn’t know why. I have to take it in for them to figure out why. Yes I know how to use it. Tests were done with speed -5, chill on, navigate on , etc. car attempted one right turn at stoplight at 40 mph . Fortunately no stopped cross traffic. In another case tried to pull out in front of crossing car and only other drivers amazing reflexes prevented an accident. I’ve talked to a tech person and they wiped and reloaded the software, then put on a different version. None worked. Remotely they can’t find a problem. There are cars it doesn’t work on!

Is it possible for you to post video clips? That would greatly help. And possibly help Tesla to diagnose your issues.

 

[Discoducky]

You're really going to keep clinging to this delusion? @wk057 let it drive over a friggin concrete divider, twice, not Chuck Yeager enough for you?

Is this recent? (10.69 or later) I couldn't find any other recent videos on YT.

 

[wk057]

You're really going to keep clinging to this delusion? @wk057 let it drive over a friggin concrete divider, twice, not Chuck Yeager enough for you?

To be fair, it's a sloped divider that probably wont damage anything as long as it's not traversed at significant speed... but definitely not something I'd ever do as a human driver, nor would I let it do with the wife in the car.

There's actually a few of them it tries to do this to. I picked a pretty mild one to let it follow through on, but it's still quite amusing that it just doesn't care about it.

I'll have to get the GoPros out and do it some more. It's hilariously bad.

 

[ggr]

To be fair, it's a sloped divider that probably wont damage anything as long as it's not traversed at significant speed... but definitely not something I'd ever do as a human driver, nor would I let it do with the wife in the car.

There's actually a few of them it tries to do this to. I picked a pretty mild one to let it follow through on, but it's still quite amusing that it just doesn't care about it.

I'll have to get the GoPros out and do it some more. It's hilariously bad.

I did a 250 mile back country drive yesterday in San Diego/Riverside/Orange Counties, just for fun. I let the car drive for some of the more boring stuff, but I never got to go more than about 10 miles before having to disengage or override for safety. Twice it did exactly the same wrong thing. In middling traffic a car coming out from a road on the left very carefully timed a break in the oncoming traffic to slot in behind me, and FSD jammed on the brakes, leaving the other car stuck on the wrong side of the road with oncoming traffic if I didn't accelerate. Another case was even more deadly. Narrow and windy country road with a cyclist. At first the car just stayed behind the bike, annoying but safe. But then it crossed the center line, started to go past, then literally stopped partly on the wrong side of the road, again with oncoming traffic. The cyclist did nothing wrong, if the car had continued everything would have been fine.

There's also a completely reproducible problem on my 8-minute commute. Southbound on I-5 into San Diego, I need to take the Front St/2nd Avenue exit. It's a two lane exit, and you want to take it from the 2nd lane because very soon after the exit the 2nd avenue part splits off to the left. FSD consistently weaves back and forth as the exit approaches, then mostly stays on I-5, before suddenly veering right, but it aims straight at the concrete barrier instead of the actual exit lane.