Glass rear window and sedan/liftback discussion

[AnxietyRanger]

If all that you are talking about is the trunk...then yes, however I would not want to break up that beautiful all glass roof for a bigger trunk opening. That would be ludicrous.

Yes, obviously I was only commenting on the discussion about trunk size. 3 Series wins on trunk size massively due to its GT and wagon variants, even when frunk is considered.

On the big glass opinions vary. I wonder how scorching it will be for rear passengers heads. Personally I would swap my Model X front glass to a bar between A pillars and an opening sunroof (even if just rear raise venting due to falcon wings similar to A5 Coupé's) without a moment's hesitation instead of the daily sunvisor acrobatics.

 

[flamingoezz]

ummm, you do realize the model 3 trunk doesn't just end where the glass starts, right? it runs up right behind the seats which would essentially make it the same capacity of the bmw you pictured. I bet you its within a few cubic feet +/-.

the sentiment remains -- stop trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. if you need a car that you can fit awkward, large items into -- buy another car.

So you think the BMW 3-series has the same size trunk?

View attachment 226247

It's quite clear that the 3-series has more depth into the car. The opening may be the same size from a straight-back profile, but the depth of the opening makes a huuuuge difference in practicality and overall size. Model 3 doesn't have much, if any depth into the trunk opening.

And it can't because of how far back the glass is. Just looking at a 3-series, you can see how much more trunk panel there is. The ass is longer and the window doesn't extend as far back to the end of the car. Both of these make for a larger trunk opening. Tesla isn't working any magic that somehow recoups the size lost from the design of the car.

View attachment 226255

Model 3's trunk is smaller than the competition. I'll be honest, I didn't even think this was up for debate, but here we are.

 

[derekmw]

Seriously guys? We're still arguing about trunk size? No one really knows until we see it, so how about we stick to the topic on actual sightings of the car and worry about trunk size after the reveal? You can argue this all day and no one on each side of the argument is going to concede.

 

[Reciprocity]

That's what margin is.

There are tons of threads and comments here about profit margin. I think most folks understand that.

People clearly do not understand how margin disappears when you add HUDS and hatchbacks to cause your automated factory to build your cars at 1/3 the speed. Tesla does not have a demand problem, they have a profit margin problem that they are trying to solve. The model 3 you see today is the result of the effort to make an affordable, long range EV that is profitable. This is something does not exist in the world today. Hopefully starting July 1st they will start rolling off the production line and eventually at 500k a year with good margins and a million a year with great margins.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Yes, obviously I was only commenting on the discussion about trunk size. 3 Series wins on trunk size massively due to its GT and wagon variants, even when frunk is considered.

On the big glass opinions vary. I wonder how scorching it will be for rear passengers heads. Personally I would swap my Model X front glass to a bar between A pillars and an opening sunroof (even if just rear raise venting due to falcon wings similar to A5 Coupé's) without a moment's hesitation instead of the daily sunvisor acrobatics.

Buy the Beemer then.

Dan

 

[S3XY]

So you think the BMW 3-series has the same size trunk?

View attachment 226247

It's quite clear that the 3-series has more depth into the car. The opening may be the same size from a straight-back profile, but the depth of the opening makes a huuuuge difference in practicality and overall size. Model 3 doesn't have much, if any depth into the trunk opening.

And it can't because of how far back the glass is. Just looking at a 3-series, you can see how much more trunk panel there is. The ass is longer and the window doesn't extend as far back to the end of the car. Both of these make for a larger trunk opening. Tesla isn't working any magic that somehow recoups the size lost from the design of the car.

View attachment 226255

Model 3's trunk is smaller than the competition. I'll be honest, I didn't even think this was up for debate, but here we are.

I think the 3-series trunk opening looks larger in your pictures due to the angle. I have a 3-series and when I look at it from the same angle as your M3 photo they look about the same. Also, why do you think the M3 trunk does not extend under the rear window? You drew your comparative lines from the end of both car's rear window. Since the M3's window extends further back you are short-changing the trunk space. And lastly, I can barely fit my golf clubs in my 3-series trunk because they hit the sides of the trunk. I think the M3 gains some trunk width internally because the trunk lid hinges are external whereas the 3-series loses space where the hinge swings down inside the trunk when it's closed. The only reason my clubs fit is because I put the club heads in the small bump-out that is in front of the trunk hinge enclosure. That bump-out is too small to put another set of clubs in there. With that hinge space gained in the M3 there is a chance that a second set of clubs could be put in the trunk. But we really won't know until we can try it in an actual Model 3. Here's hoping.

 

[PJFW8]

Seriously guys? We're still arguing about trunk size? No one really knows until we see it, so how about we stick to the topic on actual sightings of the car and worry about trunk size after the reveal? You can argue this all day and no one on each side of the argument is going to concede.

The real irony is that hatchbacks are a slow seller in the US. For example, the Ford Fusion has a hatchback and wagon option in Europe (Mondeo). Ford found that there is no significant market for either here. Don't get me wrong, I would love a hatchback!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Buy the Beemer then.

Dan

What kind of an argument is that?

My only point was that 3 Series has superior trunk options compared to Model 3, since that was being discussed. That is uncontested due to the GT and wagon variants. If that matters to someone is another question.

I bought a Model S and then Model X, thank you very much.

 

[JeffK]

Buy the Beemer then.

Dan

"Beemer"/"Beamer" is a BMW motorcycle.... you're looking for "Bimmer" (BMW car)

 

[T34ME]

"Beemer"/"Beamer" is a BMW motorcycle.... you're looking for "Bimmer" (BMW car)

Bummer also works!

 

[ccutrer]

Yes, obviously I was only commenting on the discussion about trunk size. 3 Series wins on trunk size massively due to its GT and wagon variants, even when frunk is considered.

On the big glass opinions vary. I wonder how scorching it will be for rear passengers heads. Personally I would swap my Model X front glass to a bar between A pillars and an opening sunroof (even if just rear raise venting due to falcon wings similar to A5 Coupé's) without a moment's hesitation instead of the daily sunvisor acrobatics.

Really!? The huge windshield is one of (many) favorite things about our Model X. We wear sunglasses often, but not more often than a normal car. And rarely do we have to futz about with the visors. I'll admit they seem comically small, but they're actually quite agile, and provide protection right where you need it without blocking half of your view. My only complaint about them is they don't have a telescoping arm. I sit far back due to long legs, and if the sun is coming in the side window, it doesn't come far enough back. I have the same complaint about many many other cars I've driven.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Really!? The huge windshield is one of (many) favorite things about our Model X. We wear sunglasses often, but not more often than a normal car. And rarely do we have to futz about with the visors. I'll admit they seem comically small, but they're actually quite agile, and provide protection right where you need it without blocking half of your view. My only complaint about them is they don't have a telescoping arm. I sit far back due to long legs, and if the sun is coming in the side window, it doesn't come far enough back. I have the same complaint about many many other cars I've driven.

I don't hate the windshield, so don't get me wrong. But it is a lot of work, IMO. Let's put it this way: I admire it: on occasion. They cause extra work: all the time.

The visors are agile enough to block direct glare (we shall see how they are in the summer heat)... But I notice myself adjusting the visor all the time, a lot more than on other cars and what's worse, much of the time it sits at some pretty odd and ugly angle in my peripheral vision with its glaring warning stickers and whatnot... If Tesla did roll-down sunscreens things might be different...

Perhaps I wouldn't have swapped it for a metal roof, but an opening sunroof factory option above my head (even if opening is vent raise only) and a piece of metal/opaque roof between the A pillars, absolutely. I didn't use my panoramic roof on the Model S often, but at times it was nice - and it was no bother the rest of time...

I've had telescope arms on the visors of several cars and agree they are nice, so that would be a welcome addition to the visors in any case.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

What kind of an argument is that?

My only point was that 3 Series has superior trunk options compared to Model 3, since that was being discussed. That is uncontested due to the GT and wagon variants. If that matters to someone is another question.

I bought a Model S and then Model X, thank you very much.

Not trying to be antagonistic, just saying that if all you can do is find fault then obviously the car is not for you. It is definitely not going to be for everyone. No sense belaboring the point here.

Dan

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Not trying to be antagonistic, just saying that if all you can do is find fault then obviously the car is not for you. It is definitely not going to be for everyone. No sense belaboring the point here.

I'm still considering a future Model 3, so definitely I'm not belaboring some pointless point.

That said, in this (or the past) thread I was really just trying to point out that trunk size comparisons must take into account the different versions competing cars have (3 Series in that case). It was not to badmouth Model 3, just being realistic about it. Model 3 is expected to be just one version in this technology generation, with other cars you often have many body types to choose from.

 

[T34ME]

much of the time it sits at some pretty odd and ugly angle in my peripheral vision with its glaring warning stickers and whatnot... .

It is possible to remove those safety stickers (with some work). Google it. However, it is advised to reapply them when/if you sell the car due to legal liability.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It is possible to remove those safety stickers (with some work). Google it. However, it is advised to reapply them when/if you sell the car due to legal liability.

Good tip. Thanks.

I doubt there is any legal liability in my part of the world, only cars I see them in are American...

 

[igotzzoom]

Not trying to be antagonistic, just saying that if all you can do is find fault then obviously the car is not for you. It is definitely not going to be for everyone. No sense belaboring the point here.

Dan

 

[igotzzoom]

I've already been through my stages of grief about the Model 3 not being a hatchback. That's what I have a Chevy Avalanche for, and my wife has a Ford Escape. Hoping someday to get her into a Model Y.

 

[WileyTheMan]

For what I need this car for, I'd rather have passenger space instead of cargo space in the back. I've got a minivan for hauling and road trips. it's replacing a Mustang which lacks in both aforementioned areas.

 

[Sonny Daze]

Well, BMW doesn't break down the sales numbers, but I'm pretty sure the 3 series GT is a horrible seller, as the rumor mill is that the GT will not live to another generation. Using the cars.com estimation method as the article for the wagon in the second link, I get 3.7%(330/8861) of 3 series in stock being the GT variant.
BMW 3 Series GT might not live to see a new generation

3 series wagon is even more insignificant in the US (article below estimates 3% are wagons). Rumor is next gen 3 series wagon is not coming to US (current gen will end production in June 2019).
The BMW 3 Series Wagon is Probably Dead: Here’s Why

The whole world market is moving towards CUVs, so hatchbacks and wagons are going to become less and less important for marketshare (even in countries that prefer them). Tesla's two largest markets (the USA and China) both prefer sedans.

BMW has introduced the 4 series GranCoupe in the US, but who knows if that will be any more popular than the 3 GT, and the Audi A5/S5 sportback is on the way (if not here already).