I am installing a wall charger 150 ft from the panel. What guage wire should i use?

[ajmacho95]

I am installing a wall charger 150 ft from the panel. What guage wire should i use?

 

[brkaus]

Typically once you get to #4 then we often start using SER and aluminum wire. However the HPWC is not rated for aluminum wire. Technically #4 Cu Romex is available but it is not super common.

You could use aluminum wire for the majority of the length, but the end would need to be copper and a termination device would need to be rated for copper and aluminum to make the transition.

Thanks. I’m looking at 40ft at the most, so doesn’t break the bank. But I was hoping to save a bit not needing the neutral. I didn’t see SER either that was 2 conductor plus ground. Was hoping for attic install and it’s confined so conduit would be painful. I could find MC, so that an option.

It’s a small town, so will contact the inspector and see how friendly they are to homeowner install and may just hire an electrician. It’s for my elderly moms house and visiting enough short visits that a 48a WC would help over the 6-50 they have installed on a 40a breaker. The nm-b jacket is cut back neatly so cannot double check the gauge so I manually set to 32 to be safe.

 

[davewill]

Thanks. I’m looking at 40ft at the most, so doesn’t break the bank. But I was hoping to save a bit not needing the neutral. I didn’t see SER either that was 2 conductor plus ground. Was hoping for attic install and it’s confined so conduit would be painful. I could find MC, so that an option.

It’s a small town, so will contact the inspector and see how friendly they are to homeowner install and may just hire an electrician. It’s for my elderly moms house and visiting enough short visits that a 48a WC would help over the 6-50 they have installed on a 40a breaker. The nm-b jacket is cut back neatly so cannot double check the gauge so I manually set to 32 to be safe.

A mobile connector with a 6-50 adapter wouldn't go over 32a anyway, so I'm not sure why you'd need to set anything manually.

 

[Vines]

A mobile connector with a 6-50 adapter wouldn't go over 32a anyway, so I'm not sure why you'd need to set anything manually.

Correct for a Gen 2 UMC, but I and some others have used a Gen 1 UMC to give the full 40A continuous.

 

[ATPMSD]

Correct for a Gen 2 UMC, but I and some others have used a Gen 1 UMC to give the full 40A continuous.

Good idea, but it “sounds” like there is an existing 6-50 outlet on a 40A circuit, so the Gen 1 UMC would not add anything.

 

[SageBrush]

Long distance runs are affected by voltage drop (VD).

Google 'Voltage Drop calculator.' Best to keep the drop below 3%
Plug in the AWG you would use for a short run. If the VD is > 3% try the next higher AWG until < 3%

 

[ATPMSD]

6-50 they have installed on a 40a breaker

Let’s also consider the potential cost since the existing outlet likely needs upgrades. Outlets in garages require a GFCI breaker. This will run you around $150, the outlet is likely a low quality $15 outlet and will need to be replaced with a high quality outlet at around $80, then purchase a mobile connector for $230 and some sort of cable management system at say $35. This totals $495 in parts.

A wall connector is $400 and you can keep your existing 40A breaker.

If you upgrade the wire at a later date you simply swap out the $15 breaker.

 

[SageBrush]

Let’s also consider the potential cost since the existing outlet likely needs upgrades. Outlets in garages require a GFCI breaker. This will run you around $150, the outlet is likely a low quality $15 outlet and will need to be replaced with a high quality outlet at around $80, then purchase a mobile connector for $230 and some sort of cable management system at say $35. This totals $495 in parts.

A wall connector is $400 and you can keep your existing 40A breaker.

You got me thinking about 2 EV families where one EV is a Tesla.
If the TWC and TWC-J1772 can power share it is a wonderful solution.

 

[davewill]

Let’s also consider the potential cost since the existing outlet likely needs upgrades. Outlets in garages require a GFCI breaker. This will run you around $150, the outlet is likely a low quality $15 outlet and will need to be replaced with a high quality outlet at around $80, then purchase a mobile connector for $230 and some sort of cable management system at say $35. This totals $495 in parts.

A wall connector is $400 and you can keep your existing 40A breaker.

If you upgrade the wire at a later date you simply swap out the $15 breaker.

He specifically said he wanted to upgrade to 48a charging, otherwise I got the feeling he'd be happy with the existing plug. He doesn't have to do any of those things to keep using the existing outlet, especially considering this isn't his daily charging location.

It's a little confusing because @brkaus isn't the OP and has a different situation.

 

[brkaus]

A mobile connector with a 6-50 adapter wouldn't go over 32a anyway, so I'm not sure why you'd need to set anything manually.

Correct for a Gen 2 UMC, but I and some others have used a Gen 1 UMC to give the full 40A continuous.

This. I have a gen1 UMC and it will pull 40a. I am (sadly) using a non-smart 6-50 to 14-50 adapter. They never made the 6-50 adapter fir the UMC1.

Good idea, but it “sounds” like there is an existing 6-50 outlet on a 40A circuit, so the Gen 1 UMC would not add anything.

There is an existing outlet. It’s good for 32a although it looks like a 50a outlet. Stupid welder plugs.

Let’s also consider the potential cost since the existing outlet likely needs upgrades. Outlets in garages require a GFCI breaker. This will run you around $150, the outlet is likely a low quality $15 outlet and will need to be replaced with a high quality outlet at around $80, then purchase a mobile connector for $230 and some sort of cable management system at say $35. This totals $495 in parts.

A wall connector is $400 and you can keep your existing 40A breaker.

If you upgrade the wire at a later date you simply swap out the $15 breaker.

Right. But I don’t need to upgrade the existing outlet. I get 32a out of it and all is “ok”. And it’s legal. What I would like to do is add 48a on a WC in the most cost effective way possible.

It’s a free standing garage/workshop. Has a 150a panel in its own meter. Only loads are lighting, window mount style AC/heat (30a plug), and the “welder outlet” that the electrician decided to do 40a circuit using a 14-50 outlet per accepted “welder plug” conventions.

I’ll probably just keep with the existing outlet or do a reorganization and have someone install a WC by the panel. Awkward location, but workable. Save the cost of the wire.

 

[jjrandorin]

You got me thinking about 2 EV families where one EV is a Tesla.
If the TWC and TWC-J1772 can power share it is a wonderful solution.

I think it does. When you check the order page for the Tesla J1772 wall connector, it specifically mentions power sharing on the order page. I looked into this before because, while I dont need it myself, I thought the same thing you did so was curious about it.

 

[Rocky_H]

I don't have a specific recommendation but more of a piece of advice. This one is complicated because this route goes through so many types of locations, and if you are wanting this to be a continuous run, you have to satisfy the overlapping requirements for all of them.

You said part of this would be underground. That is officially considered a "wet" location, so whatever you put in would have to be rated for wet usage, and that eliminates about half of the possible choices. So I think that's what is going to need to be the first consideration is describing the places this is going to have to run, to figure out what type you can use, and then once that is more narrowed down then you can choose easier what gauge you need for the amp level of the circuit.