Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[clerks]

90% of the posts in this thread are "wants" not any kind of logical speculation about what Tesla will actually do for a refreshed M3P.

For instance, is anyone "speculating" the interior will be different? Tesla has never once made a performance model with a different interior, not even when the car cost $50K more than the base car. Does someone actually think they are starting now? Is anyone "speculating" that they will put massive tires on the car and kill the range, despite not doing this on the Model S Plaid either?

All we have is people going "it's pointless, uncompetitive car that nobody will buy unless it beats everything a $100K M3 does at 60% the price" - which is not speculation on what the refresh M3P will be.

We can talk about a wishlist however unrealistic YOU think it may be.

 

[clerks]

M3P currently falls off above 40 MPH. So if you have a flat power curve and a goal of the identical 0-60, you don't need the same power at 40 MPH as before, because you're getting 40-60 faster. You can actually reduce your 0-40 if you increase your 40-60.


Aftermarket sells a tons of bushings for the Model 3 already. And M cars don't change every bushing or control arm in the car, especially in older M platforms.

Example: Look at this control arm for a 2020 M4, and look at the HUGE number of cars it fits on from 2012 forward, including many base models:

BMW Control Arm - Meyle 33326792543

BMW Control Arm - Meyle 33326792543

www.fcpeuro.com

The Model 3 already has a complex multi-link suspension front and rear. Even the 911 had McPhersons until recently. Shock and spring tuning is everything. Anyone that races a Model 3 will tell you to change the shocks and springs long before you throw bushings at it. And before that, they'll tell you to get some camber if you actually care about lateral grip (before you slap huge range reducing tires on it).

But it's also clear that people don't want a race car in a M3P. Search "Tesla model 3 stiff suspension" and see how much Tesla got beat up for the Model 3 suspension when it first shipped.

It's such a shame that when the parts catalog was up that nobody looked at the interesting things such as control arms to see if there was a "sports" version.

Why does this complex suspension suck so bad then?

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The challenge with the Model 3 suspension is first, you need skinny overinflated tires for good efficiency. This makes the ride harsh.

Second, you need firm shocks for good efficiency. Just like on a mountain bike, cushy shocks eat energy so they make 'em firm.

Third, the car should be low for good efficiency, handling, and aesthetics, but the battery dictates a very long wheelbase so the result is a car that's very prone to high-centering. The solution is to make the suspension springs wildly progressive by nominally riding on the urethane foam bump stops at all times rather than just hitting them when bottoming out. The result is an odd-feeling response to quick inputs or bumps.

 

[Candleflame]

Just sayin'

isnt the lettering roughly the same?
I'd take the red underline any day over a shitty badge haha

 

[MagnusMako]

No one said it's going to do 2.6. Pure speculation. In any event, 0 to 60 is one of many attributes of a sports sedan. EVs have an inherent advantage over ICE cars when it comes to pure 0 to 60 but the Germans beat Tesla in just about everything else. The magic is in the other components like feel, body roll, suspension etc. And don't even bother discussing build quality and interior because Tesla is several steps behind there.

This is where I think a Model 3 Ludicrous with 4680 cells in a structural pack design could find parity to BMW in the handling department, but I'm doubtful if that's happening with the Highland refresh, maybe in a mid-cycle refresh in a year or two once they can actually ramp up 4680 cell production further and a line created in GigaTexas or Fremont gets upgraded. Based on Tesla's Battery Day lecture, the new cells/pack should allow for a lower weight and improved polar moment of inertia by packing them more densely and towards the center of the car. The balance is in being able to reduce the weight while improving the power to weight ratio and in effect handling and maneuverability.

 

[terranx]

This is where I think a Model 3 Ludicrous with 4680 cells in a structural pack design could find parity to BMW in the handling department, but I'm doubtful if that's happening with the Highland refresh, maybe in a mid-cycle refresh in a year or two once they can actually ramp up 4680 cell production further and a line created in GigaTexas or Fremont gets upgraded. Based on Tesla's Battery Day lecture, the new cells/pack should allow for a lower weight and improved polar moment of inertia by packing them more densely and towards the center of the car. The balance is in being able to reduce the weight while improving the power to weight ratio and in effect handling and maneuverability.

Eh, the battery day lectures were mostly unfounded hype. Thus far the 4680s use the entirety of the pack, weigh more, have less energy/power. There’s no CoG or weight benefit.

The model 3’s center of gravity is already low. And its weight is actually decent as far as EVs go. Where it really falls behind is suspension. The platform has potential - the underpinnings of a double wishbone front and multilingual rear could be made to perform quite well. But Tesla’s priority isn’t really suspension engineering

 

[gearchruncher]

but I'm doubtful if that's happening with the Highland refresh, maybe in a mid-cycle refresh in a year or two once they can actually ramp up 4680 cell production further and a line created in GigaTexas or Fremont gets upgraded.

There is zero chance that they do a refresh 1-2 years after doing the highland refresh to make a M3P "better". They have the Cybertruck, Roadster, and Semi that are all behind schedule and demonstrate that Tesla isn't that flexible anymore and is overwhelmed on the new product development. Plus, they're not going to use up 4680's just to make a mid-level performance car.

Even if they planned it to be 1-2 years, it's Tesla, it would be 5 years.

 

[Watts_Up]

There is zero chance that they do a refresh 1-2 years after doing the highland refresh to make a M3P "better".

Looking at the low R&D redesign performed to the Model 3 Highland, in particular no front or rear casting,
I doubt that the Model 3 will get too much additional change in the future, to keep the Model 3 price as low a possible.
Don't forget the future Gen 3 (Model 2 and X) whose price will be below the Model 3.

 

[gearchruncher]

Looking at the low R&D redesign performed to the Model 3 Highland, in particular no front or rear casting,
I doubt that the Model 3 will get too much additional change in the future, to keep the Model 3 price as low a possible.

..And no changes to batteries or motors also.

Yet lots of people in this thread are already predicting massive changes to just the M3P config of the Model 3, and then people think they're going to do it AGAIN in 18 months just to mess with BMW instead of actually shipping the Roadster? Off the rails.

 

[FastLaneJB]

..And no changes to batteries or motors also.

Yet lots of people in this thread are already predicting massive changes to just the M3P config of the Model 3, and then people think they're going to do it AGAIN in 18 months just to mess with BMW instead of actually shipping the Roadster? Off the rails.

The Roadster feels like Vaporware. They likely aren’t shipping it because lots of people are due a free one via referrals.

Also it seems they’ve been somewhat burnt with the Cybertruck being a bad idea, making a low volume car like the Roadster feels like a bad decision also. Not saying I don’t want it, just think the Plaid did their halo model and they need to focus on the next mass market car than more low volume or stupidly complex cars.

 

[Watts_Up]

Also it seems they’ve been somewhat burnt with the Cybertruck being a bad idea,
making a low volume car like the Roadster feels like a bad decision also.
Not saying I don’t want it, just think the Plaid did their halo model and
they need to focus on the next mass market car than more low volume or stupidly complex cars.

Considering the Cybertruck price, size, and only 5-seat, I think that
the Cybertruck will be more in the volume sales of the Model S/X than the 10 time more Model 3/Y sales, and mostly limited to the US market.

But what customers worldwide are looking for are:
- a smaller Model 3 (both regarding size and cost) something already projected with the Gen 3 (Model 2 and X), and
- a larger Model Y offering real 7-seats, but cheaper than the Model X without Falcon doors and air suspension.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Considering the Cybertruck price, size, and only 5-seat, I think that
the Cybertruck will be more in the volume sales of the Model S/X than the 10 time more Model 3/Y sales, and mostly limited to the US market.

But what customers worldwide are looking for are:
- a smaller Model 3 (both regarding size and cost) something already projected with the Gen 3 (Model 2 and X), and
- a larger Model Y offering real 7-seats, but cheaper than the Model X without Falcon doors and air suspension.

Do we know the price? They had a price when they announced it many moons ago but now it’s just a reservation fee. That original price is clearly way too low and won’t be accurate anymore in my opinion.

Yes likely it’s Model S / X kind of sales numbers, it’s too big for Europes roads and pickups aren’t that popular in many countries outside of the US. They also have competition in Pickups like the Rivian and electric Ford.

Chinese makers are going to eat them if they don’t focus on important, cheap mass market cars.

 

[momo3605]

Tesla is planning a ‘Sport’ version of Model 3 with sportier seats

Tesla is planing a “Sport” Version of the Model 3 with sportier seats, according to information coming out of Tesla’s...

electrek.co

Green found some leaks of a "sport" package and bucket seat options. Good sign! I think it could be related to the future Model 3 Performance. Glad to see more differentiation. More power above 40, bucket seats, and some differentiated exterior styling would seal the deal for me!

 

[gearchruncher]

The seats are a cool find, but there's also a downside to that news- which is that he hasn't found other details in the code, such as a "Plaid" or "Ludacris" name, or even variants of motors or batteries that are managed differently or reported differently.

To me this makes it likely that the seats can be had on all Highland cars, and that we're still pretty far away from the performance 3 release.

That said, he did just post this, which could be amazing:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717587080656650746

 

[Knightshade]

The seats are a cool find, but there's also a downside to that news- which is that he hasn't found other details in the code, such as a "Plaid" or "Ludacris" name, or even variants of motors or batteries that are managed differently or reported differently.

To me this makes it likely that the seats can be had on all Highland cars, and that we're still pretty far away from the performance 3 release.

That said, he did just post this, which could be amazing:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717587080656650746

Eh- multiple "air suspension on 3/Y" leaks over the years that nothing came out of:

Tesla leak hints at Model 3/Y air suspension even though Elon says 'no'

Another leak shows that Tesla is working on an air suspension for Model 3 and Model Y air despite Elon...

electrek.co

Tesla Model Y teardown: everything points to an air suspension to come

The Tesla Model Y teardown is revealing that the new electric SUV is ready to get an air suspension despite...

electrek.co

I'd much rather have magnetic anyway

 

[stopcrazypp]

Eh- multiple "air suspension on 3/Y" leaks over the years that nothing came out of:

Tesla leak hints at Model 3/Y air suspension even though Elon says 'no'

Another leak shows that Tesla is working on an air suspension for Model 3 and Model Y air despite Elon...

electrek.co

Tesla Model Y teardown: everything points to an air suspension to come

The Tesla Model Y teardown is revealing that the new electric SUV is ready to get an air suspension despite...

electrek.co

I'd much rather have magnetic anyway

Doesn't magnetic only allow adjusting ride comfort and not ride height (while air allows both)?

I looked it up and it seems the Corvette has both features, but actually they are down by separate systems. The two inch Front Lift is done via 2 stage hydraulics and the magnetic dampers are independent from that system.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/gm-convenience-technology/general-motors-front-lift-adjustable-height-memory-technology/

 

[FastLaneJB]

Eh- multiple "air suspension on 3/Y" leaks over the years that nothing came out of:

Tesla leak hints at Model 3/Y air suspension even though Elon says 'no'

Another leak shows that Tesla is working on an air suspension for Model 3 and Model Y air despite Elon...

electrek.co

Tesla Model Y teardown: everything points to an air suspension to come

The Tesla Model Y teardown is revealing that the new electric SUV is ready to get an air suspension despite...

electrek.co

I'd much rather have magnetic anyway

They designed it so the Model 3 and Y can have air suspension if they ever decide to but yes it never happened. Similar to when the Model 3 first came out there were leaks of a 100kWh battery pack, Insane / Ludicrous mode and so on.

From early reviews it seems like they’ve greatly increased the suspension quality in the Model 3. In its price range most cars don’t have air suspension either so not sure what the point is frankly.

 

[Zcd1]

…I'd much rather have magnetic anyway

Me too, but I’m guessing cost/licensing fees and probable impact on efficiency/range make it unlikely…

 

[Watts_Up]

Doesn't magnetic only allow adjusting ride comfort and not ride height (while air allows both)?

I guess for track mode you want to get a stiff suspension, and city driving with potholes you want a softer suspension.

I think cars like the VW GTI provides such adaptive suspension dampers.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Many cars have adaptive suspension at the price point Tesla sell at. They’ve had non-adaptive and pretty bad suspension in pre-highland cars but sounds like highland is quite a bit better.