I think it's because it would diminish many of the advantages that Model S has over the Taycan. Every one of those upgrades added to match Taycan will reduce efficiency (weight, drag, rolling resistance), and further removed Model S from its original design objectives. On top of that, it'll be a very expensive Model S (just tires and brake alone will be $15K+ upgrade). What if chasing those performance means the resulting Model S be less efficient than equivalent Taycan? Wouldn't that actually said Porsche has out-engineered Tesla? I think the risk is greater than the reward here for Tesla...
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I think it's because it would diminish many of the advantages that Model S has over the Taycan. Every one of those upgrades added to match Taycan will reduce efficiency (weight, drag, rolling resistance), and further removed Model S from its original design objectives. On top of that, it'll be a very expensive Model S (just tires and brake alone will be $15K+ upgrade). What if chasing those performance means the resulting Model S be less efficient than equivalent Taycan? Wouldn't that actually said Porsche has out-engineered Tesla? I think the risk is greater than the reward here for Tesla...
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I never said 450kW...but your argument is that Porsche can do 250 kW of onboard regen capability, but Tesla can't because something something superchargers?
OK.
larmor
Active Member
They probably have to have a roll cage for track safety purposes. I for one would think tesla is going to remove the frunk lining (anecdotes suggests that people have gotten improved speed and numbers this way).
I would also get the "Stig" do to the lap, and have FSD working, so they would just show him sitting in the car.
Finally, tesla needs to duct tape an analog clock to the dash board, just saying...
I would also get the "Stig" do to the lap, and have FSD working, so they would just show him sitting in the car.
Finally, tesla needs to duct tape an analog clock to the dash board, just saying...
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
You're doing some excellent white knighting for Porsche in this thread.
mtndrew1
Active Member
I can’t figure out what Tesla has up their sleeve here.
The Model S is, at best, a grand touring car and its customer base largely doesn’t care about this metric.
There could certainly be an OTA track mode coming that pre-chills the battery and lowers/tightens the Raven suspension to help. The more efficient switched reluctance PM front motor, revision E battery pack, and potentially revised inverters and cooling system certainly won’t hurt. The 100 kWh battery pack will have lower C rates for charge and discharge and potentially lower internal resistance than the last S that overheated on the ‘ring. And the S is lighter than the Taycan.
I will be absolutely astonished if the S runs the same or faster time than the Porsche. This sort of thing is just totally in Porsche’s wheelhouse and if they have a slower time than a car launched in 2012 by some California upstart it will be a massive slap in the face.
This would however be an incredible opportunity to launch a Model SR or something with a fresh interior, bigger battery pack, fat Brembos, and sticky tires at a huge price premium. Lord knows the S could use some juicing in the sales department right now.
The Model S is, at best, a grand touring car and its customer base largely doesn’t care about this metric.
There could certainly be an OTA track mode coming that pre-chills the battery and lowers/tightens the Raven suspension to help. The more efficient switched reluctance PM front motor, revision E battery pack, and potentially revised inverters and cooling system certainly won’t hurt. The 100 kWh battery pack will have lower C rates for charge and discharge and potentially lower internal resistance than the last S that overheated on the ‘ring. And the S is lighter than the Taycan.
I will be absolutely astonished if the S runs the same or faster time than the Porsche. This sort of thing is just totally in Porsche’s wheelhouse and if they have a slower time than a car launched in 2012 by some California upstart it will be a massive slap in the face.
This would however be an incredible opportunity to launch a Model SR or something with a fresh interior, bigger battery pack, fat Brembos, and sticky tires at a huge price premium. Lord knows the S could use some juicing in the sales department right now.
There is no AC charger/rectifier involved in regen. It just uses the same inverter that is used to power the motors. So they should be able to provide essentially the same level of regen as they can provide power. (If the battery can accept a charge that fast.)
On a Raven Model S charging currently tops out at 200kW so that would likely be the max regen that it is capable of, but only for a short period of time.
But the Taycan number isn't from a stock Taycan from what we have seen. (It isn't even from a production copy.)
whitex
Well-Known Member
- I never claimed anything as far as what Porsche can or cannot do. You must be confusing me with someone else. I was just saying that Tesla is not putting in hardware capable of regen many times greater than the current limit.
- I was using supercharger capability as a comparison. Apparently it just confused you, so ignore it. My point from the beginning was that regen is separate hardware from the hardware which drives the motors, so stating that if motors can pull some KW power means that regen can happen at the same KW is false.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that Tesla inverters are symmetrical, i.e. they can convert DC to AC for driving and AC to DC for regen?
I already got sweet Taycan Turbo Tattoo!
I will be crushed if the Taycan loses its ring record so quickly!
I will be crushed if the Taycan loses its ring record so quickly!
Telsa 0-60: 2.4s
Porsche 0-60: 2.6s
Telsa 1/4mile: 10.6s
Porsche 1/4mile: 10.8s
Average speed for a 7:40 Nordschleife time: 100mph
I expect the Porsche to have better handling and since Tesla is not faster above 60 mph, they won't win with a stock P100D. But they might come up with a modified car.
Porsche 0-60: 2.6s
Telsa 1/4mile: 10.6s
Porsche 1/4mile: 10.8s
Average speed for a 7:40 Nordschleife time: 100mph
I expect the Porsche to have better handling and since Tesla is not faster above 60 mph, they won't win with a stock P100D. But they might come up with a modified car.
Yes, and I don't think that is limited to Tesla I'm pretty sure that is the way all EVs currently work that use AC motors.
In fact in some EVs they have routed the AC input through the drive inverter to charge the battery to save on parts. But I think there are complications that come up and that is why pretty much everyone uses a dedicated charger for AC charging now.
Are you predicting the future with that title or was it meant as clickbait?
doghousePVD
My grandfather’s car
Obviously clickbait.
However, I (fantasy) predict that Tesla will beat the Taycan - AUTONOMOUSLY. It is a perfect course - no traffic, everything mapped, no traffic lights, signs, fire trucks, etc. Run it as fast as possible with a great driver, have all the sensors record every inch, then in the final, the driver steps out, pushes the key fob, and it's off for the record books.
However, I (fantasy) predict that Tesla will beat the Taycan - AUTONOMOUSLY. It is a perfect course - no traffic, everything mapped, no traffic lights, signs, fire trucks, etc. Run it as fast as possible with a great driver, have all the sensors record every inch, then in the final, the driver steps out, pushes the key fob, and it's off for the record books.
Production starts next week, so how could it be a production car?
I however think the record making car is identical to the production cars. What have you seen?
seattlite2004
Active Member
So production cars come with a roll cage? (And who knows what other customizations.)
The Porsche videos state that it is a prototype car. Not a pre-production car. So we really don't know what it was.
We'll have to wait until Sports Auto or other magazines get a hold of a production car and test it. I do believe the production car will come very close to matching the factory time, and the delta will be done to driver difference.
