Tesla Product Announcement at noon

[HankLloydRight]

'm going to charge a very fair, $12k for my 90kw pack so that a S60 owner can drive away with a S90 (performance increase included here mind you). Then I'm going to pay Tesla $21k for the 100kw battery ($20k battery + $1000 core fee), and walk away with a $9k upgrade for an extra 100kw.

I don't understand a few things...
1. Did you fabricate this $1000 core fee?
2. You really think Tesla is going to just sell you a 100kWh battery without a trade-in? If they'll even do that (they won't), it's going to cost a lot more than $20k, because they're calculating that $20k including getting a 90kWh pack back, which is worth a lot more than $1000.
3. You don't seem to be including labor on two pack swaps, or the hacking required to accomplish that.

But let us know when you accomplish this feat.

 

[Alketi]

OK 16.7% change for 11% more battery capacity. I really wonder where the 5.7% more efficiency came from because that is quite huge.
That would mean the 100D would have an EPA range of about 340 miles.

340 miles, I believe, is exactly the 100D range that the guy at Seeking Alpha deduced two days ago, though he was attributing it to a fundamental chemistry change at the cell level, which Tesla just refuted today.

 

[LetsGoFast]

You'd almost be better off selling and buying new (especially before the $7500 credit expires).

Yeah, I'm looking at the numbers. Probably makes sense to wait until AP 2.0 anyhow.

 

[3mp_kwh]

I can still scare people with my comparatively tame insane mode P85D.

Yeah, but the watts ceiling on the P85D is lower, and rolls off faster than any of the...P85DL, P90D, DL, P100DL. At 150 miles of range remaining, the difference is pretty big. At least that's what the downloads show, and what my butt tells me of the relative difference to having the car range charged, with battery "Ready".

Visually, except for little more than a badge change you can now have the $67,200 Model S, or the $162,200 Model S.

 

[jdevo2004]

More cells in parallel means lower resistance. Not using thin aluminum bond wire fusible links means lower resistance. Lower resistance means increased efficiency. This is the new Model 3 pack architecture "prototype" pack but the gigafactory cells are made for cooling on one end and both pos neg on the other

Why do you think that they are using anything other than 18650 batteries in this pack? Where did you hear about them discarding the bond wire fuses from the design?

 

[alseTrick]

I'm sure other trims will get it soon
Absolutely no reason not to offer it on all trims

It only took them a year to announce them for the S after introducing it on the X...

And aren't there still some seat options that aren't available on the X that they had previously said would be added later?

I really don't think you can just assume it will be available on non-Performance cars at this point.

 

[Canuck]

??? It's not cynical. It's how the free market works. Tesla may have a secondary objective but it's not a charity. It has to become profitable at some point or it won't exist. You don't do that by selling below market.

Of course they do but our conversation started because Tesla increased AP today by $500. As a joke, @Rockster said "The extra cost is to help Tesla defray legal fees" and you quoted him and said "The extra cost is because they can get it." I don't see increasing the cost today by $500 as being done because they can, and I don't see adding new hardware and charging for it as a "secondary objective". They can charge what they want, or what the market bears, and increase costs, at any time. But today AP increased by $500 and the question is "Why?". I say their primary objective in that specific price increase for AP today is because whoever pays it will get more hardware than when it was $500 less.

But I could be wrong and you might be right and they just increased the price to increase profits. If there is new hardware for the additional $500 there's likely also profit built into the extra cost, but obviously it's a much greater profit to simply increase the price and offer nothing new.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Ventilated seats, not "cooled" seats.

And ventilated seats will only be on the Model S Performance models. Lame.

The Design uses a term of cooled, dried ventilation ---so perhaps cooled is not out of the question. The plumbing would be a bit clumsy to pipe main cabin freon into the seat. A simple seat fan would be quite simple to implement - and calling the cabin air cooled and dried would not be entirely incorrect. I am willing to pay $500 more on my leather next-gen seats to have this fan. I don't want to pay $3500 on top of $3000 leather to get a fan.

 

[AMPd]

It only took them a year to announce them for the S after introducing it on the X...

And aren't there still some seat options that aren't available on the X that they had previously said would be added later?

I really don't think you can just assume it will be available on non-Performance cars at this point.

When looking at teslas option availability history, you can most certainly assume they will offer the white model x seats on all the trim levels

 

[jeffro01]

I'm a bit disappointed that you have to get P&L to get the new 100 battery... We're waiting to order our Model X for when the range is close enough to our Model S 90D... I was hoping the 100 battery on a regular X100D would be what we wanted but I'm not spending $155K with a $2200 a month lease payment to get it either...

It's nice to see the ventilated seats on the Model S even though it's only on the P&L model...

Jeff

 

[MorrisonHiker]

P100D is up! Along with the WHITE seats from the X!

Thanks Erik

View attachment 191251

White seats with fancy red buttons! Too bad the white won't have ventilation as well. I was holding out for white seats but won't be paying $30,000 for them.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Wondering what the implication for the M3 may be, with the considerable increase in range due to a reconfiguration of the pack...rather than a chemistry change...

 

[Cloxxki]

Wondering what the implication for the M3 may be, with the considerable increase in range due to a reconfiguration of the pack...rather than a chemistry change...

Model 3 will have the bigger cells which waste less space and mass on the can, and focus it all on the internals where the magic happens. A same chemistry pack from these new bigger cells will deliver +10% in power and range for given pack size (say a liter, gallon, bucket, barrel). And the bucket will be lighter when stuffed full also.

Option A
As theoretized in a Seeking Alpha article, it could just be that present day charging infrastructure combined with old style battery layouts (serial and parallel cells) just didn't manage to charge the cells to their highest voltage.

Option B
But it could also just be that improved cooling tech takes up less space so they just crammed a few more of the same old cells in there. Expensive cells. Possibly a limited series of battery packs until the next (better) upgrade.

Option C
A fancy (and I mean $$$) circuit allows charging and discharging (driving) to be in different circuits. More in parallel in charging (higher voltage), more in series when driving (more power). But I quit physics after highschool, so do your own thinking on this
Could be compatible with both A and B, even at the same time.

 

[Tam]

we knew already that 60 is 75. now we know that 90 is 100

Not according to Car and Driver:

"The new 100-kWh battery pack is not an upgrade that can be unlocked in the 85-kWh and 90-kWh cars, CEO Elon Musk emphasized, but a completely new pack. The CEO was quoted by multiple sources in a call with select Silicon Valley reporters as saying production numbers will be “quite low, because of the challenge of making such a complex pack.”"

Looks like Tesla only heard from a very low number of owners who want further range (and faster ludicrous speed) so it has responded with a very limited production.

 

[Cloxxki]

It being "complex" might mean it's indeed some circuitry wizardry going on. Or laborous cooling plumbing. Maybe more minimalist, but wrapping all cells more. While allowing space for a few more cells?
Hmmm, I'don't think I like all the guesswork we're left with after an announcement. Especially not such an expensive upgrade.

 

[Canuck]

Not according to Car and Driver:
"The new 100-kWh battery pack is not an upgrade that can be unlocked in the 85-kWh... cars,

Damn, and here I've been trying to get the car to download the latest update...

 

[alseTrick]

The Design uses a term of cooled, dried ventilation ---so perhaps cooled is not out of the question. The plumbing would be a bit clumsy to pipe main cabin freon into the seat. A simple seat fan would be quite simple to implement - and calling the cabin air cooled and dried would not be entirely incorrect. I am willing to pay $500 more on my leather next-gen seats to have this fan. I don't want to pay $3500 on top of $3000 leather to get a fan.

Same terminology as the X. They're ventilated seats. They apparently do not blow cabin air up through the seats onto the passenger, though.

 

[Tam]

So the 100 kWh pack is only available in ludicrous?

Electrek reported:

"Elon Musk described the new P100D pack as “complex” and that Tesla will first focus on the performance P100D version and the 100D will follow “several months” later."

 

[ohmman]

Same terminology as the X. They're ventilated seats. They apparently do not blow cabin air up through the seats onto the passenger, though.

Correct. They draw it in, which has the effect of cooling the occupant as well. I find them completely adequate in our X. Others have not found them to be as effective on their vehicles.

 

[Stasla]

Correct. They draw it in, which has the effect of cooling the occupant as well. I find them completely adequate in our X. Others have not found them to be as effective on their vehicles.

I didn't get 'em and not regretting it. White seats in my X stay relatively cool and I'm happy that there are no perforations. They sure look great but are a pain to clean and maintain. Had ventilated seating in the black leather seats of my old car (gas guzziling infiniti qx56) and barely used it outside of messing with the wifey by turning it to max cool while she wasn't looking and saying "you gots to chill yo ass out!" Gotta say always had the opposite effect on her than intended. She didn't find it funny at all