Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[jerry33]

Me don't understand... How sophisticated is it to buy a few shares, don't lend them out and have a voting party at a shareholder meeting every once in a while ?

Other than placing a sell order on them, how do you prevent the broker from lending them out?

 

[Chunky Jr.]

The best way to counter the narrative that demand is soft and they are going bankrupt is to not go bankrupt and ship a lot of product. No announcements or tweets or anything else will have an impact like results.

 

[dqd88]

According to the following link there should be about 45-55 million "self directed equity retail investors" in the US. Whatever that means... Guess that says that IF every "self directed equity retail investor" holds 4 TSLA shares into eternity and don't lend them out all TSLA shares are off the market. And 45-55 million investors can have a huge party at the annual shareholder meeting. Lucky for some market entities most of those 50 million US investors appear not interested in owning TSLA.

https://www.quora.com/How-large-is-...e-investors-and-the-amount-of-assets-invested



Me don't understand... How sophisticated is it to buy a few shares, don't lend them out and have a voting party at a shareholder meeting every once in a while ?

Obviously it would not require 45-55 M investors. Just one million at $10k = $10 billion. AND that's not even taking into account global investment interest.

To your second point - it would be much more powerful to have a fund manager controlling billions of $$ that goes directly to Tesla shares VS individual investors. The fund manager for ex could literally buy a billion$ of shares or more in a single day. That would be awesome

Anywho, you didn't answer my question. It's a good baseline to start - Is there enough money in retail investors to buy out open shares? That's a good starting point before getting into more details.

 

[doghousePVD]

It would seem to me the structure would be similar to a mutual fund or hedge fund. How is pooling money into a fund illegal?

A hedge fund cannot accept money from retail investors. This kind of investor needs to be an "accredited investor", ie, one of the big boys. Typically that means a provable, liquid net worth > $500,000 not including residential real estate. (There are a few other regs that you can research). The concept is it is not highly regulated by SEC, that you can easily lose a lot of money, but you are smart and rich enough that it doesn't matter.

A mutual fund has enormous set up and regulatory costs. It is for retail investor, but could not invest as discussed in this thread.

 

[Dangleitus]

It would seem to me the structure would be similar to a mutual fund or hedge fund. How is pooling money into a fund illegal?

When the intention is to manipulate the price, it is illegal. This type of behavior was the chief reason behind the 1907 panic that lead to the run on the banks when the Knickerbocker Trust was rumored to be insolvent after a failed corner of the copper market by the Hienz brothers. In the 20s, Michael Meehan of the RCA pool operated the same type of scheme knowning many shares were held by insiders. he accumulated shares, pumped the stock with fake news letters, and sold before the price crashed. After the SEC act was made into law, Mr Meehan was the first person charged for securities violations.

 

[dqd88]

A hedge fund cannot accept money from retail investors. This kind of investor needs to be an "accredited investor", ie, one of the big boys. Typically that means a provable, liquid net worth > $500,000 not including residential real estate. (There are a few other regs that you can research). The concept is it is not highly regulated by SEC, that you can easily lose a lot of money, but you are smart and rich enough that it doesn't matter.

A mutual fund has enormous set up and regulatory costs. It is for retail investor, but could not invest as discussed in this thread.

I see, so it's actually illegal. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[phil0909]

Other than placing a sell order on them, how do you prevent the broker from lending them out?

We build or buy a brokerage too. Vertical integration. Have you learned nothing from Elon?

 

[guidooo]

Other than placing a sell order on them, how do you prevent the broker from lending them out?

My broker states that securities are not lend out, unless explicit permission is given. It would generate a small fee, received from someone betting against my position and wave my voting rights.

Think in case of doubt, call or mail your broker. And if the answer is not to your liking, consider switching brokers. In my opinion, a short position cannot exist without a long position allowing it.

 

[Singuy]

Stock is reminding me of GoPro >.> Larry Ellison pls save us. Let’s see those Form 4’s tonight

No bro, I have been passionate about two stocks and of course you guys know my other is AMD. This stock at least to me is very similar the other one. If AMD is A New Hope, Tesla is Force Awakens.

I first started investing AMD fully researching Zen for the data center in which AMD has <1% marketshare(sounds familiar?). Their approach is a multi chip design to reduce cost, and give the customer more cores and more PCI-E lanes which I thought it's a game changer. Bought in at 13-15. After Epyc ( the server processor) launched, the penetration is just slow which was warned by management due to the nature of data center. Revenue was right where the guide was but margin were always lower than expected. That and a coordinated attack in which shorts commissioned an Israel hacker team to penetrate the CPU claiming it's unsafe, worst than Intel's Spectre and Meltdown. Of course it was all FUD. Many people in the know figured that Intel had massive problems with 10nm 6 months in advance. I knew this so when the stock tanked all the way down to 9s, I sold Index funds to buy the stock and basically tripled down.

The FUD continues to spread, Morgan Stanley keeps shitting on the stock and say competition from Intel is coming and will crush AMD. Stock was in the 10s-12s for half a year until Intel finally admitted 10nm is late while AMD's Zen 2 will obliterate it. Short squeeze happened from 15 to 34 dollars in 3 weeks time. AMD is the most shorted stock in the U.S by volume of shares.

Sounds familiar? People's hopes are high, Model 3 is a good car (like Zen), production is going well (Zens selling well), stock in the 300s+ (15 dollars). Then now a bad quarter in conjunction with the narrative of legacy competition will kill Tesla (Intel)...no one wants to buy a Tesla (datacenter demand), Tesla has all sorts of problems (security issues like BS Ryzenfall).

But the gap of knowledge is where you make that money. Tesla has way too many moat to list and the competition is lacking. There will be a day when Tesla deliver 2 million electric cars/year while the giants deliver 50k due to people sick and tired of crappy charging infrastructure. Analysts will hold them to the fire like they are doing to Intel while Tesla's sp explodes on the side.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Was just coming back from the Philly suburbs about to merge onto 95.......whooosh! A 45-50 year old guy in a Model 3 blasted past everyone in the truck lane going straight uphill. Like jumped from 60 to 90 in a silent blink.

The idea that there's anything to worry about is quite literally insane. Just execute. Don't even have pushes at the end of quarters or anything like that. Just execute.

 

[Curt Renz]

ARK Invest - this afternoon: Tesla Valuation Model: Are Investors Stuck in Reverse?

EDIT: I've now learned that that discussion for this article has a thread of its own: ARK's open-source valuation model for TSLA

 

[Ratanpara]

Most company fail due to highly advertised poor product and no exclusivity in their product meaning commodity products, neither is the case for Tesla, us long term investors are betting on jockey, let see who win in 5 years span.

 

[defc0n]

Whether if it’s a buyout or take private, anything under the price of $420 is shady on Elon’s part as he decided to reverse course, especially when $420 was within striking distance months ago. He has publicly stated that the funding was there, VW was one of the presumed parties involved, and he turned them, along with his bankers down. With Elon stating recently that Tesla will be a $500 billion company within 5-10 years, why would he sell for anything less than $420? Especially with over $4 billion in cash to take us beyond Model Y.

Take private or buyout, it’s shady business if the price is under $420.

Hence why I said $421...

 

[Chunky Jr.]

Tesla Vancouver Store Is Reportedly Taking In ~800 Model 3 Orders Per Week | CleanTechnica

Clearly a demand problem at that particular store.

 

[KSilver2000]

Stock is reminding me of GoPro >.> Larry Ellison pls save us. Let’s see those Form 4’s tonight

GoPro....smh.

Although not even distantly, remotely close to being so, I more so wouldn't want Tesla to end up like Palm and WebOS. Very forward looking at the time with the way they used cards for app closing and switching. Android and iOS didn't have any app switching until a year or two later. The product was there, but the business and management was not in the end (ie. terrible decision to partner exclusively with Sprint).

 

[hacer]

We don't know the size of his loan payments from German car makers. We know he needs to post at least $5B collateral 5 FUD pieces per week. That's significant, even for someone with his (volatile) net worth propensity for innuendo.

FTFY. Talking about yourself of course. See how unreasonable it is?

 

[EVDRVN]

Tesla Vancouver Store Is Reportedly Taking In ~800 Model 3 Orders Per Week | CleanTechnica

Clearly a demand problem at that particular store.

I heard about this, a friend of mine on vacation went in there to look at colors and said the staff did not even have computers due to cost cutting and orders were done on paper and mailed to the US. No wonder this scares away potential customers.

 

[Artful Dodger]

At it's core, buying a stock is an investment into the company.
Their narrative will never end. TSLA could be at 5k a share and they would still be talking about an upcoming failure.

I wonder what will change if TSLA moves to the nascent Long Term Stock Exchange (LTSE)?

• Location:San Francisco, California
• Founded May 10, 2019 (6 days ago)

It really comes down to rules on short selling, doesn't it?

Cheers!

 

[Singuy]

GoPro....smh.

Although not even distantly, remotely close to being so, I more so wouldn't want Tesla to end up like Palm and WebOS. Very forward looking at the time with the way they used cards for app closing and switching. Android and iOS didn't have any app switching until a year or two later. The product was there, but the business and management was not in the end (ie. terrible decision to partner exclusively with Sprint).

It's pretty safe to say that Tesla is doing everything right about every aspect of an electric car while other companies are doing it semi wrong or way wrong.

1. Since there's no engine, maximize space/storage: Check
2. Charging infrastructure: Check
3. Control over the drive train, especially battery production so you don't have to rely on a very competitive landscape: Check
4. OTA update: Check
5. State of the art battery management system: Check
6. Make the cars appealing to look at: Check
7. Give the cars some personality: Check(I mean it farts or play cow bells..and now MORE cow bells)


JB literally said "Just COPY US!"

 

[bdy0627]

The best way to counter the narrative that demand is soft and they are going bankrupt is to not go bankrupt and ship a lot of product. No announcements or tweets or anything else will have an impact like results.

Absolutely, and I wouldn't mind at all if the Tesla twitter account were to congratulate the team on achieving a 7k/week model 3 production rate with orders continuing to outpace production even at that rate.