Tire/Battery Life in Arizona

[sleepydoc]

I’m talking with my brother in law about getting a model Y. He lives in Arizona and commented that the heat is very hard on car batteries and tires. (He has an 8 year old Prius and has replaced the 12v battery 3 times already)

What are people’s experiences with 12v batteries and tires with their Teslas in hot climates? I read that Tesla transitioned to lithium low voltage batteries - do these handle the heat any better?

 

[ucmndd]

Lead acid batteries don’t particularly love extreme heat or cold. But Teslas don’t have them any more. The lithium LV battery should be much better in this regard.

Tires? It’s a heavy car - gonna chew tires no matter what. Never heard of heat having a significant effect on wear rate but if it’s true it’s gonna be true on any car in AZ…

 

[William R]

I live in AZ and have a 2022 M3 with 50k miles on it. Have had to change the tires twice so far (so like once a year) and am currently dealing with changing the 12v - it died on me yesterday.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

It’s a heavy car - gonna chew tires

Only if you boot it everywhere. It's a fast car. People do hoof it and chew up tyres but it's not compulsory.

 

[ucmndd]

Only if you boot it everywhere. It's a fast car. People do hoof it and chew up tyres but it's not compulsory.

Are you suggesting that a 5,000 pound car will not wear tires faster than a 2,500 pound car driven in identical conditions?

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

Are you suggesting that a 5,000 pound car will not wear tires faster than a 2,500 pound car driven in identical conditions?

No, never compared anything.

But here's one example. My current 5000lb car has half the ponies of a Tesla but enough torque to get off its arse when needed. I don't chew up tyres. 50k miles.

Neither do the sedate Tesla drivers. 40k miles isn't bad. Some even get 50k.

It's not the weight, it's the power usage.

 

[fholbert]

I’m talking with my brother in law about getting a model Y. He lives in Arizona and commented that the heat is very hard on car batteries and tires. (He has an 8 year old Prius and has replaced the 12v battery 3 times already)

What are people’s experiences with 12v batteries and tires with their Teslas in hot climates? I read that Tesla transitioned to lithium low voltage batteries - do these handle the heat any better?

You listen to your Brother-in-Law? A Brother-in-Law that drives a Prius no less?

 

[sleepydoc]

You listen to your Brother-in-Law? A Brother-in-Law that drives a Prius no less?

I’ve got him in a 12 step program….
Actually he’s made a lot of progress - he traded in the prius and got a Model Y!

 

[Pianewman]

Heat and tires? I live in Ft. Worth. never trust a tire beyond about 3 years, after 35-40k miles on blistering highways.

12V lead acid batteries?

 

[Pianewman]

 

[weiner-bus]

View attachment 1046781

Based on experience with previous cars, I'd call "Truckload of ungulate-sourced fertilizer", unless a manufacturer sites a battery so it's subjected to excessive heat (like 'back in the day' examples of large lumps of iron with horrible heat-soak sequence).

"Regular" lead/acid - I've had them die in 2 years, I've had them last 7+. All in FL with its toasty climes. Best lifespan was 11 years on a AGM battery in a Camry Hybrid. What precipitated its demise was a 'newbie driver' who would sit in the parking lot for an hour blasting the stereo with the car on 'accessory'.

A related observation over a fair number of years, and with other vehicles - 3-7 'deep cycles' (where nominal voltage was < 8 after the discharge cycle) of a lead/acid battery would fairly consistently precipitate a failure. This would include things like lights being left on, components that did 'phantom drain mode' with the car sitting, etc.

 

[Pianewman]

weiner-bus: I've seen this map at Ford dealers, Firestone dealers, and elsewhere. It's based on averages.

Modern cars give no indication of a weak battery, so it's impossible to tell when it's going to fail. Quality control of battery manufacture is inconsistent.

I prefer to proactively replace batteries and tires, due to the annual 50-60 days of 100f+ heat here in TX. I do not want to get stranded or inconvenienced by either failure.

YMMV, and of course, you're entitled to your opinion, based on YOUR experience

 

[weiner-bus]

weiner-bus: I've seen this map at Ford dealers, Firestone dealers, and elsewhere. It's based on averages.

Modern cars give no indication of a weak battery, so it's impossible to tell when it's going to fail. Quality control of battery manufacture is inconsistent.

I prefer to proactively replace batteries and tires, due to the annual 50-60 days of 100f+ heat here in TX. I do not want to get stranded or inconvenienced by either failure.

YMMV, and of course, you're entitled to your opinion, based on YOUR experience

Yeah, and things like this are a 'sales facilitators' intended to increase revenue. Remember who's authoring it, and what activity it supports / facilitates. Same idea as the stealership pushing 3K OCI with synthetic oils for a mild suburban use cycle - on a hybrid. Last year I was shopping for a vehicle for my daughter - and the sales crook was pushing a $1000 'maintenance package' on a used Tesla mod 3 to the folks in the next cube over. Needless to say, that was not a place I did business with.

As to 'give no indication of a weak battery' - I suppose it depends. Over the last 15 years or so we've had Toyota and Ford hybrids, with an ICE-only van being the exception. In the case of '16 FFH, the 12V lasted 7 years, with the low-voltage battery gave warning by 'flaky' behavior - easily confirmed by a voltage measurement. The '08 Camry had a similar behavior - flaky 'wake-up' behavior, but still 'bootable' down to 10.6V. A load test is the more definitive measure - and low voltage with a modest load is definitively a reason to replace. I was simply advocating 'replace when needed or indicated by test failure' rather than by sales-centered charts.

 

[Pianewman]

For many cars, like you, I've just waited until failure to replace failed batteries, occurring anywhere between 3 and 8 years, various brands of cars and batteries.

I'm no longer willing to deal with the uncertainty and inconvenience of the timing of a failure. The VAST majority of car owners don't have a clue about these things, and I don't think they'll ever be interested in learning.

I will continue to follow the industry advice, ("sales facilitators"? BS!) and will advise my non-gear-head friends, to replace proactively. Better to replace proactively, in a garage, rather then in 115f heat on the side of the road, possibly necessitating a tow, or a lot of sunscreen.

Especially since a Tesla battery is <$100.

YMMV.

 

[weiner-bus]

For many cars, like you, I've just waited until failure to replace failed batteries, occurring anywhere between 3 and 8 years, various brands of cars and batteries.

I'm no longer willing to deal with the uncertainty and inconvenience of the timing of a failure. The VAST majority of car owners don't have a clue about these things, and I don't think they'll ever be interested in learning.

I will continue to follow the industry advice, ("sales facilitators"? BS!) and will advise my non-gear-head friends, to replace proactively. Better to replace proactively, in a garage, rather then in 115f heat on the side of the road, possibly necessitating a tow, or a lot of sunscreen.

Especially since a Tesla battery is <$100.

YMMV.

Huh. Guess the switchover was sometime after your car was made? On mine, the low-voltage circuit is Li-ion according to the in-car info. Which I would interpret as 'car lifetime', much like the traction battery. Is the upgrade low-voltage battery not an option? I get that the charge characteristics are different with the battery chemistry - heck, charge strategy and control varies based on anode composition on Li batteries. In any case, my expectation is that the low-voltage circuit on mine would have a lifespan comparable to the 'main' battery.

 

[Pianewman]

Huh. Guess the switchover was sometime after your car was made? On mine, the low-voltage circuit is Li-ion according to the in-car info. Which I would interpret as 'car lifetime', much like the traction battery. Is the upgrade low-voltage battery not an option? I get that the charge characteristics are different with the battery chemistry - heck, charge strategy and control varies based on anode composition on Li batteries. In any case, my expectation is that the low-voltage circuit on mine would have a lifespan comparable to the 'main' battery.

I see where this discussion went off track. You are correct that the newer 16v Li-ion battery, with its totally different chemistry, has a different life expectancy.

I believe 12V lead-acid to 16v Li-ion change occurred with 2023 model year? Not sure.

Based on multiple posts in this forum, failure of the 12v battery is totally unpredictable, with dozens + of cases getting no warning whatsoever. I still recommend proactive replacement, depending on the regional sustained temps.

 

[weiner-bus]

I see where this discussion went off track. You are correct that the newer 16v Li-ion battery, with its totally different chemistry, has a different life expectancy.

I believe 12V lead-acid to 16v Li-ion change occurred with 2023 model year? Not sure.

Based on multiple posts in this forum, failure of the 12v battery is totally unpredictable, with dozens + of cases getting no warning whatsoever. I still recommend proactive replacement, depending on the regional sustained temps.

According to a quick search, the switch seemed to happen in Q4-21, though it's not clear on a quick look what the dates for given factories were.
Your point is fair enough - though I would assert, absent a serious 'low bidder' scenario, that a frequent failure speaks more to the charge / SOC cycle management strategy in the low-voltage subsystem, and should be amenable to a software fix to reduce deep cycling. Given the location and surrounding components, M3/MY low-voltage battery lives the 'life or Riley' compared to most ICE batteries that are packaged in hot compartments. That would make the charts less relevant, in that the thermal stress comes not primarily from the ambient temps, but also from where the component is packaged. ICE-only starting batteries have to tolerate a high-current-draw cycle, as well as heat soak from adjacent components. The heat soak really should play no notable role in the M3/MY location.
Most batteries that use the lead/sulphate chemistry don't tolerates repeated deep cycling. There are specially-designed and manufactured "Deep Cycle" lead/acid batteries that can tolerate it to some degree, but they have serious power density liability. Again, from a quick search, the Tesla units were AGM (?) , which is typically robust - see above RE my Toyota / Denso AGM experience. That puts the symptom of short lifespan on the 'how it's used by the vehicle computes' more than anything else.
Back when I was into self-abuse by boat, I made the bonehead move of trying to run a trolling motor off a second 'starting' battery. That was a fairly quick lesson - the battery lasted less than half a season, even with after-use trickle charge. Thanks to a warranty and an ability to effectively 'play dumb' (which really wasn't a stretch role - I must have forgotten-after-final EE class material on battery chemistry) it ended up a lesson on the Sears dime. And it reinforced the need to choose the right tool for the job.

 

[Pianewman]

"...Again, from a quick search, the Tesla units were AGM.

Nope. Cheap, small 12v $65 battery.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I have a model Y purchased in November 2021, with the lead-acid battery. Based on years of experience in Arizona with variable but often short battery lifetime, I decided to replace proactively this past week - prior to its third summer season (parked outside).

My first plan was to schedule a mobile service, partly just to experience it. However they only offered two appointment slots, both of which were inconvenient. So I just went into the SC and purchased the battery. There was no core charge/refund, in fact the girl there had never heard of the concept of a refundable core charge, but they do accept the old battery for disposal. The charge to have Tesla do it is not very much and of course you get a warranty on the new battery, but I think the risk of failure is low if I do it again in another 2 to 3 years.

If I had thought it through better, I would also have purchased a replacement HEPA filter element and taken the opportunity to replace that, as that big housing has to come out anyway. I think my HEPA still has reasonable life left in it, but the housing was very dusty/dirty so I so I took some time to clean it off, along with other underhood surfaces.

I won't offer any procedural advice at the moment, but if anyone is interested I made notes for myself. I'll just mention that there are extra safety disconnect steps before you remove the battery terminals, because unlike an ICE car, the Tesla keeps the terminals energized and charging from the HV circuit.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

I have a model Y purchased in November 2021, with the lead-acid battery. Based on years of experience in Arizona with variable but often short battery lifetime, I decided to replace proactively this past week - prior to its third summer season (parked outside).

My first plan was to schedule a mobile service, partly just to experience it. However they only offered two appointment slots, both of which were inconvenient. So I just went into the SC and purchased the battery. There was no core charge/refund, in fact the girl there had never heard of the concept of a refundable core charge, but they do accept the old battery for disposal. The charge to have Tesla do it is not very much and of course you get a warranty on the new battery, but I think the risk of failure is low if I do it again in another 2 to 3 years.

If I had thought it through better, I would also have purchased a replacement HEPA filter element and taken the opportunity to replace that, as that big housing has to come out anyway. I think my HEPA still has reasonable life left in it, but the housing was very dusty/dirty so I so I took some time to clean it off, along with other underhood surfaces.

I won't offer any procedural advice at the moment, but if anyone is interested I made notes for myself. I'll just mention that there are extra safety disconnect steps before you remove the battery terminals, because unlike an ICE car, the Tesla keeps the terminals energized and charging from the HV circuit.

Please do. Tesla want to charge my autosparky for the safety info to enable installing a 3rd party camera when they won't do it themselves. Bloody cheek!