Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[X Yes?]

Not sure why that matters in a discussion about the M3... Elon stated it would come with active safety features standard, GM is offering it as an added option to their highest trim level.

Airbags?

 

[bro1999]

Not sure why that matters in a discussion about the M3... Elon stated it would come with active safety features standard, GM is offering it as an added option to their highest trim level.

And taking Elon's word for gospel has certainly panned out, right?

 

[X Yes?]

I think they're overcharging DCFC...but my point was to highlight the reach the OP was making with the "over-delivering" comment.

The range was higher than most expected, certainly, but if we're making comparisons to Tesla it seems remiss to discount the fact that the M3 will have standard features on the base vehicle that will cost $6k+ to get on the Bolt.

We've seen a Model 3 prototype with an interior. Do we really know at this point ,what Tesla can and will offer for 35K?

 

[X Yes?]

I use a strong word because I believe it is true. People were sobbing when EV-1 was taken away and crushed.

And as a Honda fanatic myself, I see the same thing happening to Honda as the Takata airbag disaster becomes bigger and drags on. People are angry. Their cars are unsafe and/or have killed drivers, because Honda was the first to use the cheap Takata airbags. Between the deaths, massive inconvenience, and lack of transparency a lot of people have come to hate Honda and will never buy another Honda car.

You are generalizing again. Plenty of folks will continue to love Honda.

 

[Model 3]

GM produced the EV-1 at a loss

True

... and cancelled the program because there was little market at the time for them.

False.

The canceled the program because they managed to lobby the California government to stop demanding that they should offer an EV - on the promise of a hydrogen car "soon".

 

[bro1999]

True


False.

The canceled the program because they managed to lobby the California government to stop demanding that they should offer an EV - on the promise of a hydrogen car "soon".

Don't think GM single-handedly did that. Pretty much every major manufacturer was doing the same.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

We've seen a Model 3 prototype with an interior. Do we really know at this point ,what Tesla can and will offer for 35K?

Yes. Is there anything else you'd like to attempt to cast doubt upon?

 

[anticitizen13.7]

GM produced the EV-1 at a loss and cancelled the program because there was little market at the time for them.

Nope. Nope. Don't deny the truth about what happened!

 

[JohnSnowNW]

And taking Elon's word for gospel has certainly panned out, right?

Things change, sure. The base price is unlikely to.

 

[Model 3]

Don't think GM single-handedly did that. Pretty much every major manufacturer was doing the same.

That is true,. but here we was discussing GM, not all the others. And GM was a part of this lobbying.

 

[X Yes?]

Yes. Is there anything else you'd like to attempt to cast doubt upon?

Don't get me started John. The Model 3 value proposition will be tough against the Bolt. Tesla has not been able to make money selling cars at $66-150K. Who knows what and if anything will be offered at $35K. It's easy for GM, offset any losses with trucks and SUV's

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Don't get me started John. The Model 3 value proposition will be tough against the Bolt. Tesla has not been able to make money selling cars at $66-150K. Who knows what and if anything will be offered at $35K. It's easy for GM, offset any losses with trucks and SUV's

LOL

 

[X Yes?]

We look "sideways" at GM because of their legislative and regulatory activity against Tesla being able to decide what business model to use to sell its product. If GM thinks it's car is good enough to go up against Tesla, then stop all the rent seeking activity limiting how Tesla sells and services its cars and let the market decide.

Your Texas legislature is deciding how vehicles are sold in Texas. If GM or its dealers are advocating all manufacturers are treated the same, it makes good business sense.

 

[McRat]

Nope. Nope. Don't deny the truth about what happened!

The MSRP for a NiMH EV-1 would have been $101k in 2016 dollars.

The EV-1 was the pinacle of Electric Car Development. And it was a failed experiment. Only GM put forth a serious clean sheet effort, and they lost the most money. Most MFR's just stalled with their lawyers and didn't even bother with it.

So GM tries and are aholes. Other companies give the government the middle finger, and others use duct tape and hose clamps to ship a handful of useless obsolete cars which they crushed also.

Look, GM is always going to be the bad guy. The Corvair handled like a Porsche and other rear engine cars. That made GM evil, and Porsche good. Later Ralph Nader's study was found to be wrong when real data that was not "edited" was analyzed by the NHTSA. The Corvair was killed.

Chevy trucks did not catch fire at a higher rate than other pickups when real data was used. A greedy TV producer ignited one with Estes model rocket engines and lied about, hence making GM the bad guy.

Yes, our legal system is broke. Lawyers are marketing experts now. Right or wrong, the last thing they desire is truth since it cuts into their profits.

Wait until a Tobacco lawyer thinks Tesla can afford billions. Then you will learn in the National Inquirer that thousands died in Auto Pilot equipped cars. It doesn't have to be true, it just has to baffle a jury enough to get a payday.

 

[McRat]

BTW - Where are the thousands of cellphone deaths from brain cancer?

The EMF energy emitted from a phone is not enough to alter cell structure or DNA. But the Lawyers had experts, studies, and marketing that "proved" otherwise. Luckily science won that one. A rare win, but a win.

 

[LargeHamCollider]

Don't get me started John. The Model 3 value proposition will be tough against the Bolt.

No, no it won't be, a ridiculous statement.

 

[diamond.g]

Airbags?

• Front and side collision avoidance
• Blind spot warning
• Lane departure warning
• Parking sensors

Those are available in the base Model S. TACC and Autosteer are what makes up Autopilot. Should be the same for the 3.

Though they do offer some of those items as standard in the Premier Trim Bolt. Still have to get the Driver Confidence II Package to get the front collision avoidance.

 

[ggies07]

Has everyone seen the documentary, Who Killed the Electric Car? The result is several different hands in the pot, but a lot of it was GM. And then to add salt to the wound, they produce the Hummer.........the hummer! talk about wanting to start the sustainable transportation era............hahaha.

 

[jgs]

I always thought the anti-Tesla-doing-business-in-our-State efforts were mounted by Dealer Groups rather than GM itself. Dealer Groups have oiled and perfected the political channels for many decades State by State. That's where all the mischief is done. They don't need any direct help from GM Corporate, who better handles the Feds. But I could be wrong about this.
--

The dealer protection law in Michigan (where I live and followed the news closely) was headed for a veto until a last-minute lobbying intervention by GM. It's pretty well documented in the mainstream press.

 

[techmaven]

I always thought the anti-Tesla-doing-business-in-our-State efforts were mounted by Dealer Groups rather than GM itself. Dealer Groups have oiled and perfected the political channels for many decades State by State. That's where all the mischief is done. They don't need any direct help from GM Corporate, who better handles the Feds. But I could be wrong about this.
--

GM lawyers stepped in and stopped an agreement between dealerships and Tesla in Maryland. The quote from Delegate Reznik of Maryland is:

“And then GM showed up and as I like to put it, pulled the pin on the grenade and threw it.”

General Motors "Pulled The Pin On The Grenade And Threw It" In Attempt To Block Tesla's Direct Sales - Video