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I have a hard time believing such claims. Every year at the start of the school year, within the first two or three weeks, the entire student body brings home whatever bug one kid came back from summer with, and those kids spread it to their families. There's simply no realistic chance that COVID-19 won't behave in the same way; it's pure fantasy.
Kids don't "bring home bugs" every school season, they become infected with viruses, fall ill, and transmit those viruses to their family members. That's simply not happening with school age children and covid-19.
A large percentage of young kids show zero symptoms whatsoever, but still continue to spread the virus.
All indications say this statement is almost entirely false. Asymptomatic zombie covid kids wandering around does not appear to be happening.

I know of two school age kids in my girlfriend's district(urban Philly) with covid, both contracted it from parents in households where everyone got it.
 
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I have a hard time believing such claims.

I would say I definitely don’t know, but reliable epidemiologists I follow seem to think this is true. I have no idea. (And as I said, I am only talking about elementary school in this entire conversation; children under 12.). Not inclined to go searching for the latest studies right now.

I would say that this could be different than normal respiratory viruses - most kids are not showing symptoms at all, and that may limit their infectiousness.

We’ll probably find out for sure next year when it is too late.

But I’d reiterate that school is important enough that it should be the absolute last thing shut (this is not what is being done in NYC). It’s dumb. People should be arrested for going to bars and restaurants before they shut down elementary schools, in my opinion. (At this point in the pandemic, anyway, with what we know now. We just had no idea in March/April of what the dangers were, and no way to control spread.)

Anyhow. They should have been reopened this year with fast antigen tests for every student, every day, and then the question of whether or not outbreaks spread in schools readily would have been largely moot.

Instead, what they need to compare is adults with kids to adults without kids within a given area, and do so in areas that did and did not reopen schools, and compare the ratios. Unfortunately, I don't think anybody is doing that.

Seems like a good idea. I would actually guess that SOMEONE is doing a similar study.

It’s one of the most frustrating things about this pandemic that there is very little information shared by the gov’t about the Pareto of how infections are acquired. They must know at this point.
 
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There was a paper released for NSW schools which showed very little in school transmission, and I assume no masks were even used.

Also saw a report on ABC (Australia) several days ago of a study where 2 parents had it but their 2/3 young kids did not get it but they seemed to generate antibodies very quickly. Have not found a separate video of it, it was just in a long stream.
 
Some data to be filed under Duh!

States That Imposed Few Restrictions Now Have the Worst Outbreaks

"Outbreaks are comparatively smaller in states where efforts to contain the virus were stronger over the summer and fall"
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But a few good charts showing containment efforts for the different states
It is also likely that states had more restrictions because they had worse outbreaks. There could be some underlaying reason why they had a worse outbreak, for example population density etc that are still relevant.
 
Researchers in Denmark reported on Wednesday that surgical masks did not protect the wearers against infection with the coronavirus in a large randomized clinical trial. But the findings conflict with those from a number of other studies, experts said.
I'd say they don't really know that for sure. Maybe the masks did protect users while they were i public, but always possible that if the virus were on their hands and then into their system AFTER taking off the masks. I just like to see the results of the study instead of the conclusion. Too many variable and too many ways to contract the virus. And I latched on to the "surgical mask" comment which of course are not N95 masks, so maybe they are saying that is the difference. Could be misleading to some people thinking that no type of mask will help. Sounds like you know that, so not a critique of your post.
 
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I'd say they don't really know that for sure. Maybe the masks did protect users while they were i public, but always possible that if the virus were on their hands and then into their system AFTER taking off the masks. I just like to see the results of the study instead of the conclusion. Too many variable and too many ways to contract the virus. And I latched on to the "surgical mask" comment which of course are not N95 masks, so maybe they are saying that is the difference. Could be misleading to some people thinking that no type of mask will help. Sounds like you know that, so not a critique of your post.

Yeah, good to keep that study in context. It does not demonstrate that masks are ineffective, of course.
 
If they existed, they would be good for that. Unfortunately the FDA requires they be approved for medical use, rather than for public health use, and that makes it basically impossible to get them approved in a timely fashion. (Dr. Mina has more explanation on this.)

As it is, they don't really exist in this country. We should be doing 50 million rapid tests a day. It would be no problem if we wanted to do it.
FDA just approved a rapid test. But that needs a prescription ! They still don't get it.

FDA Approves 1st At-Home Coronavirus Test

While we don't have them in US - has anyone tried to get it from somewhere else ? Unfortunately nothing on Aliexpress ...
 
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FDA just approved a rapid test. But that needs a prescription ! They still don't get it.

FDA Approves 1st At-Home Coronavirus Test

While we don't have them in US - has anyone tried to get it from somewhere else ? Unfortunately nothing on Aliexpress ...

Yeah, I mentioned this a couple days ago. This is an (expensive) at-home LAMP molecular (looks for matched RNA) test. It is not an antigen test and it is not appropriate for massive fast testing.

It would be good to use as a confirmatory test for positive antigen tests (though there are other less expensive ways to confirm those as well).
 
Yes - not what we need (though might be useful to test seniors who can't go to test sites).

For sure. It is absolutely useful for people who have a known exposure or have reasons they cannot get a mail-in test, need quick turnaround, or do not want to risk exposure at a testing site. Any high sensitivity, high specificity at-home test is great. Need more of all types. They each serve a purpose.
 
While we don't have them in US - has anyone tried to get it from somewhere else ?

I’ve seen pictures of instant antigen tests that people brought back from Germany. German engineering, highest quality.:p

The nice efficient model for at -home surveillance would be to have a reusable plastic case, and be able to replace the paper. When you get a positive, throw the whole thing away, or maybe special sanitizing procedure?

7D8F8842-9901-4DDA-A407-33B6717B598C.jpeg
 
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Kids don't "bring home bugs" every school season, they become infected with viruses, fall ill, and transmit those viruses to their family members.

*blinks*

What do you think "bring home bugs" means?

And no, it's not just viruses; it's also bacteria (strep in particular). That's why I used a colloquialism that is accurate, rather than a more precise wording that isn't. :)


All indications say this statement is almost entirely false. Asymptomatic zombie covid kids wandering around does not appear to be happening.

I have yet to see any actual analysis. Everything I've seen has been opinions based on very crude data — either:

A. Making assumptions based on low positivity. This is meaningless, because kids get sick more often than adults, because their immune systems aren't quite so well trained at handling random crap that gets thrown at them; the resulting higher rates of testing inherently drive positivity rates down.
B. Making assumptions based on low symptomatic case rates. Asymptomatic carriers don't typically get tested unless they know that they were exposed to someone who is symptomatic. This results in a lower rate of detection among subgroups that are much less likely to show symptoms.

Short of random testing showing rates at or below the community, you don't have evidence; you have speculation. And even if you do see rates at or below the community levels, that still isn't enough, because you're still making assumptions about whether families with kids take risks at the same rate as the community (which almost certainly isn't true). To make a valid comparison, you have to control for all of those things, which basically means ignoring the data from families that aren't self-isolating so that you can get an actual, verifiable rate of community transmission in the schools.

And we need that data not just in places with relatively few new cases per capita (New York in October), but also in places with relatively high numbers of cases per capita (North Dakota now). I'm pretty sure that the data just plain doesn't exist, unfortunately, and IMO, it seems dubious to try to draw conclusions from the limited data that is available. :(

There's little question that if you compare two groups of families, both of whom self-isolate, one of whom have kids who are getting in-person education, the other of whom have kids who are getting distance education, the group whose kids are getting in-person education will have higher rates of coronavirus. The question is how much higher, and whether those numbers are worth the reduced quality of education.

Unfortunately, the answer to the last part of that question depends highly on the school district, the parents' education level, whether the kids have good access to solid Internet connections, whether the teachers are doing a good job of doing education online, etc.; it's probably an almost impossible question to answer.
 
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Let's just have these for all students every day, and then we won't have to worry about whether or not schools will be able to stay open (though there will still need to be temporary closures for outbreak control). Consider visiting Dr. Mina's page, so you can write to your governor and Congress to do an end-around around the FDA. Also write to Biden's team.

Panbio COVID-19 Ag Rapid Test Device

Screen Shot 2020-11-20 at 10.19.05 AM.png
 
dgatwood said:
Instead, what they need to compare is adults with kids to adults without kids within a given area, and do so in areas that did and did not reopen schools, and compare the ratios. Unfortunately, I don't think anybody is doing that.

Seems like a good idea. I would actually guess that SOMEONE is doing a similar study.

It’s one of the most frustrating things about this pandemic that there is very little information shared by the gov’t about the Pareto of how infections are acquired. They must know at this point.

WaPo (may be behind paywall) had a comparison from New York State between community spread numbers, school children (separating elementary and older kids) and staff. In most cases, staff followed community spread numbers tending to indicate that schools were not superspreading locations. The data set is limited and relies on a correlation, but was interesting

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...19-schools-data-reopening-safety/?arc404=true
 
https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1329882586454188032?s=20

Unsurprisingly, antibodies are good correlates of protection and look like they'll last a decent amount of time. Pretty much what has been expected all along - immunity had a good chance of being long-lasting, reinfection is uncommon, and there was a good chance the vaccine would work well (based on what we knew about coronaviruses and how they differ in significant ways from flu).
 
I have a hard time believing such claims. Every year at the start of the school year, within the first two or three weeks, the entire student body brings home whatever bug one kid came back from summer with, and those kids spread it to their families. There's simply no realistic chance that COVID-19 won't behave in the same way; it's pure fantasy.


:(

Not sure if I agree with your stance, at least locally where our schools require masks and other precautions. Historically, my kids (7 and 5), and my wife (who is a teacher), would have gotten sick at least 3 times each by now. My kids (knock on wood) haven't gotten a cold since last March when everything was shut down and masks became required in public. Also, there has been no indication of any COVID spreading amongst students at the schools in my County so far.

I have been semi joking that even once Covid is behind us they should still require kids to wear masks at school and require masks on airplanes. Dealing with sick kids constantly during the school year is never fun.

Shut down the schools and force kids into day care centers or having grandparents watch them will increase the spread and put the Grandparents lives at risk.
 
I have been semi joking that even once Covid is behind us they should still require kids to wear masks at school and require masks on airplanes. Dealing with sick kids constantly during the school year is never fun.

Would be great. Certainly I'm going to do it in future when I fly, and be more careful about my exposure.

And I also hope that some more sophisticated workplaces think about making it more of a social responsibility thing, and mandatory employee behavior - don't come to work if you have a cold (should have been the case already, but now that remote work has been made more normal it should be easier to make this fly without taking sick days), and if you think you may have been exposed (family member, etc.), wear a mask while at work. It would likely benefit the businesses, productivity-wise. And it would actually be a perk for prospective employees and might help with recruitment.

Not having any colds has been wonderful.