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Emergency Lane Departure - False Positives
- Thread starter Paddy3101
- Start date
FielderJones
Member
On Sunday June 9 at around noon I finally had my first ELDA event, but it was not a false positive. Driving on a divided state highway in the left lane, about a mile to my interstate exit ramp. Got some time to get over, so accelerated past some slow traffic in the right lane, giving myself plenty of space to cut to the right. Checked display, checked mirror, no vehicles in right lane so started to cut over. Red warning flashes on display, wheel jerks back into the left lane. Some joker had been trailing right behind me, had cut in and was going to pass me on the right. I hadn't paid any attention to him on the display, as I was focused on the right lane.
So far for me, ELDA working as designed.
So far for me, ELDA working as designed.
Isn't that collision avoidance and not ELDA?
alstoralset
Man from another place
I had two M3 "rogue takeover" events today, which were complimentary.
With the first one, the car inexplicably alarmed and swerved across the right lane marker, while simultaneously braking. I was driving in the center of the lane at the time with no approaching cars, but a sharp curve was upcoming, which may have confused it.
With the second event, I was drifting toward the right lane marker to make room for oncoming traffic, but remained several inches from the marker. This time the car alarmed and swerved toward the center of the lane (and toward oncoming traffic).
This is the 3rd takeover I've had in a couple of weeks. All of them increased the risk of having an accident.
The M3 is great to drive, and I sure hope to become the driver again soon!
With the first one, the car inexplicably alarmed and swerved across the right lane marker, while simultaneously braking. I was driving in the center of the lane at the time with no approaching cars, but a sharp curve was upcoming, which may have confused it.
With the second event, I was drifting toward the right lane marker to make room for oncoming traffic, but remained several inches from the marker. This time the car alarmed and swerved toward the center of the lane (and toward oncoming traffic).
This is the 3rd takeover I've had in a couple of weeks. All of them increased the risk of having an accident.
The M3 is great to drive, and I sure hope to become the driver again soon!
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That's exactly what ELDA is supposed to be.
The description of ELDA in the software release notes reads:
"To improve safety, Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance is designed to steer your vehicle back in to the driving lane if a potential collision is detected." (emphasis added)
I'm not certain, but maybe the key difference between ELDA and general collision avoidance (which already existed before ELDA) is that general collision avoidance reacts to other vehicles veering into your lane and ELDA reacts to you veering into other vehicles' lanes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
smogne41
Active Member
I have not had any ELDA events yet, but I have disabled it for all but a few drives. Add me to the list of those very upset this was forced on us this way. They must add a way to permanently disable this for those of us who don't want it or for those with driving conditions not suitable for it.
Msjulie
Active Member
smogne41
Active Member
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Still no ELDA events for me on well-marked multi-lane city streets. I've never disabled it. Haven't done that many miles though (maybe 200 miles total). I'm up to 2019.20.1, but only one drive this morning on that.
Hopefully they'll completely fix it before I experience an event!
Hopefully they'll completely fix it before I experience an event!
jyalpert
Member
The intent is great. Lots of people don't pay attention. But my issue with it is that ELDA, even when it's not freaking out at parked cars, has no idea if what you're doing is intentional or not. It assumes you are not paying attention and just drifting around aimlessly. A couple days ago it fired during an intentional lane change, startling me and confusing traffic around me, making the situation more dangerous.
So I hate this feature personally, but what I can't figure out is whether or not that's OK. Maybe by assuming nobody is ever paying attention, one theory of the case could be that Tesla is essentially trying to force drivers into a homogeneous behavior pattern, by being so intrusive that we learn to avoid pissing it off, thereby driving more defensively?
I'm pretty sure this is wrong and this feature just sucks, but maybe.
jyalpert
Member
It was also happening (2019.16.2), when minding your own business, not changing lanes, not near any other cars or anything else. See the original post.
Now 2019.20.1 seems much better.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I have been afraid to ask this question. I always use my signals...I've never had an ELDA activation. Coincidence?
That's really surprising to me...I wouldn't expect intervention in such a case...you're signaling, you're steering, you're completely within the road markings (other than the dashed line you are crossing), etc. Are you still on 2019.16? Or 2019.20.1 now?
Really would be good to get more videos of these events. We'll obviously have to take people's word for it that they were signaling. But it would be interesting.
jyalpert
Member
I have been afraid to ask this question. I always use my signals...I've never had an ELDA activation. Coincidence?
That's really surprising to me...I wouldn't expect intervention in such a case...you're signalling, you're steering, you're completely within the road markings, etc. Are you still on 2019.16? Or 2019.20.1 now?
Really would be good to get more videos of these events. We'll obviously have to take people's word for it that they were signaling. But it would be interesting.
Oh, it wasn't a false positive. It was a calculated and intentional (but very minor) risk. The car just didn't like what I was doing and took away my control. Here's what happened:
Two days ago, I entered the highway and needed to get into the left lane before traffic backed up, so I could get into the HOV lane. There was a guy on my tail, and I knew he was a little antsy. My choices were 1) do the lane change anyway and try and make clear to the guy behind me what I was going to do, or 2) let him go by, get stuck in traffic at a dead stop, and then try and change lanes from a dead stop to one moving at 60mph. I deemed (2) more dangerous than (1). So I put on my blinker, and as soon as it was safe to change lanes, I did, giving it a little throttle. The guy behind me also changed lanes at more or less the same time, and I made sure to get ahead of his movements to make clear what was happening. I was looking at his eyes the entire time in my side view and I could see he was paying attention and there was no chance of a collision. (I've avoided this sort of thing before if it's clear the other driver is insane or not paying attention). Halfway into the new lane, ELDA fired, pulling me back to the right, causing my wife to yelp, and startling the hell out of me. So now I'm startled and I'm fighting it, sitting somewhere between the two lanes, the guy behind me gets confused (because who just changes halfway and then sits there), speeds up a little, and almost hit me as my car was now sitting somewhere between the two lanes.
This is why I'm asking the sort of philosophical question - is it OK for the car take away your agency if it doesn't like what you're doing? Is it OK to assume that the driver is not paying attention? Moreover, at Level 5, it's possible the car will have to make decisions like this - a little risk now, or a different risk later. What's the framework for that?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
To me this seems like a false positive. You're signaling, you are steering, and you are not crossing (I think) a solid white line (unless you were entering the HOV lane (illegally?) over the double solid white lines - which I don't think you were).
That's why I thought the video would be interesting, just to try to figure out what it might have decided it didn't like.
It sounds like it was the "secondary" feature that isn't really lane departure... "Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance is designed to steer a Tesla vehicle back into the driving lane if our system detects that it is departing its lane and there could be a collision, or if the car is close to the edge of the road."
So it was predicting that the guy behind him was going to be an issue, or maybe it saw something in front that he didn't see since he was paying so much attention to the guy behind him, and took action. Sounds like it is a little too aggressive right now. Not to mention the name of the feature doesn't totally line up with how it works.
Exactly. I thought this was also the case when it became apparent how much driving style affects battery range. It seems the AP is perfect for those who drive slowly and conservatively. Just wait until they start herding ev's traveling together on the highway using a mesh topology. I'm going to have to explain to my son what it was like to actually drive back then...
Msjulie
Active Member
I agree that Tesla's programming seems to assume the driver is not paying attention and/or is bad driver.
I personally do NOT think the car should ever take control - I am not opposed to warnings/indications that it is 'concerned' that I may not know what I am doing, but tempered so it doesn't scare the cr*p out of me or passengers when telling me so such that it causes a worse condition or accident
jyalpert
Member
I saved it to the SD card afterward, I'll see if I can pull it.
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