Experience on Battery Degradation and How Tesla Handles It

[Skyace888]

Hi All,

Got a 2015 Model S with 113K+ miles. Been great overall! My battery first charged to 100% with about 270 miles range. Now 100% charge is about 232 and sometimes when I charge to 100% the battery icon only shows about 95% charged.

- Is this normal?
- Have some cells gone bad?
- Anyone else have similar results?

I asked Tesla to check my battery when I bring it in for service in a few weeks and they want to charge $55 for that. Could have sworn it was done complimentary for me in the past. I'm well outside of bumper-to-bumper warranty but my powertrain warranty is still covered for (8 years and unlimited mileage I believe).

Thanks in advance.

-Al

 

[ucmndd]

To cut to the chase, Tesla doesn't "handle" battery degradation at all. Your car has no warranty against degradation, only failure. So asking them to take a look at things, for $55 or not, is not likely to yield any benefit for you.

~14% degradation is not unheard of for a car of your age/mileage.

 

[Tam]

...charge $55...

I agree with @ucmndd that for $55 charge, Tesla would tell you that it's still charging (even less, but still charging) so there is no failure to charge and you'll go home with a lighter pocket.

- Is this normal?

It's not what we want but old battery does degrade. There's no way going around it.

- Have some cells gone bad?

You still can charge for 232 which is quite a lot for an old battery so Tesla won't fix it because it holds 232 mile charge fine.

 

[DerbyDave]

Tesla's current 8 year battery warranty guarantees at least 70% charging capacity. It is in writing. They do handle battery degredation in the current warranty.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Tesla's current 8 year battery warranty guarantees at least 70% charging capacity. It is in writing. They do handle battery degredation in the current warranty.

However, that warranty would have no application to the OP as that's for new cars, not his.

That said, I think the OP should not waste the money on a battery "inspection." Simply use it and keep track of the range loss. As it stands now, the OP's battery appears to be an outlier as few seem to have such losses at that mileage.

Thus, it might be in his best interest to "help" it along its path to retirement by charging to a high SOC, and doing deep discharges, to "reset" the range indications. If this doesn't boost the range then perhaps it's really got a few bad cells?

If so, then best for him or her to stress it to an early death before he reaches the 8-year point . . . if possible.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla's current 8 year battery warranty guarantees at least 70% charging capacity. It is in writing. They do handle battery degredation in the current warranty.

Sure, but that's completely irrelevant to the OP and their 2015 Model S.

 

[DerbyDave]

Sure, but that's completely irrelevant to the OP and their 2015 Model S.

Good to know. Thanks, TSLA Pilot for your information. My response was to ucmndd saying, "To cut to the chase, Tesla doesn't "handle" battery degradation at all." My response was that they do handle it in the current warranty. I couldn't get any more specific in stating my words.

 

[Skyace888]

Thanks all for the prompt replies. Much appreciated.

So to summarize I shouldn't have Tesla inspect my battery and just continue to use it as-is? That kind of degradation seems a little excessive to me (though I could be wrong). Can someone point me to the text stating that they do not cover any degradation and only handle battery failures (and examples of what failures would be)?

 

[Tam]

Thanks all for the prompt replies. Much appreciated.

So to summarize I shouldn't have Tesla inspect my battery and just continue to use it as-is? That kind of degradation seems a little excessive to me (though I could be wrong). Can someone point me to the text stating that they do not cover any degradation and only handle battery failures (and examples of what failures would be)?

Here's the text before the new policy of 70% capacity since 2019 for newer cars:

"The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty"

 

[Tam]

...examples of what failures would be)?...

I think Tesla's position is as long as your battery can hold a charge, it's good.

That means even when your battery capacity can no longer hold as many miles and impractical to drive to the next county, as long as it can hold a charge, it's good. They don't cover loss of range due to usage and old age.

In the early days, they might covered your loss of range/capacity but that honeymoon period is long gone. Starting from about 2019, they made it clearer that they would cover if your capacity goes below 70%.

70% of 270 miles is 189 miles. You might want to revisit once it goes below 189 miles to whether Tesla would apply 2019 warranty to your 2015 car.

 

[ucmndd]

Thanks all for the prompt replies. Much appreciated.

So to summarize I shouldn't have Tesla inspect my battery and just continue to use it as-is? That kind of degradation seems a little excessive to me (though I could be wrong). Can someone point me to the text stating that they do not cover any degradation and only handle battery failures (and examples of what failures would be)?

If the car otherwise drives/charges fine and has no error messages, you won’t gain much from a battery inspection. When something fails, you’ll know, because the car won’t charge and/or drive.

Looks like Tam already pointed you to the warranty doc.

 

[Skyace888]

Thanks all. I'll probably tell them not to look at the battery then. Will continue to track how it does over time.

 

[airborne spoon]

Every time i make an appointment for anytime i also complain about the battery supercharging slow or the capacity lowering, sometimes both. they usually say its gonna cost $300 to check out the battery but when it comes time to pay it either says good will or batt warranty for type of payment and it says $0.00
They usually say its fine, last time they said to charge on 240v only and to go from 20%-90% while charging for 2 months. That will be 1 Apr so I'll be making another appt in the next couple weeks to complain about the battery again. my 2014 P85D has 113k miles, wont charge past 98% and has 68kWh useable and when SC it starts at 120kW or so and by the time it hits 18% its at about 75kW. it would originally not hit 72kW till 51%.

 

[aerodyne]

Thanks all. I'll probably tell them not to look at the battery then. Will continue to track how it does over time.

For less that what Tesla would charge, get CAN bus reader, adapter cable, and SMT app.

Then, you will know exactly what is the state of the pack, and all systems.

Screen grab showing just a few of the hundreds of data points:

 

[AmpedRealtor]

This is probably your issue. Unfortunately, Tesla will do nothing for you.

Wiki - Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Lost 20km of max charging within 2 weeks on my S85D. At the 12th of May I was able to charge to 399km at 100% charge. 2 days ago the max charge has dropped to 379km all of a sudden. Temperatures at both charge times were around 18 degrees Celsius. Called Tesla and they’re telling me the car...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Just echoing what others are saying here. You won't get Tesla to replace your battery at all if it is still working even if it was less than 70% of capacity. The only time when they will replace, and they will fight you for it, is when you can't charge or it conks out way before the gauge say you are empty. Essentially they will only replace if it the car leaves you stranded along the road. Anything short and it will be a simple "No." I would be surprised if they do any cycle charge testing when you pay them the $55 or $110 or whatever cost they demand to test your battery. They probably just charge it up to full and let it sit and if it doesn't discharge much overnight, they say it's fine.

 

[af88]

I can confirm what others have said when it comes to replacements. Yes they do use refurbished batteries as well if they have them in stock for warranty replacement.

 

[AndrewTX]

However, that warranty would have no application to the OP as that's for new cars, not his.

That said, I think the OP should not waste the money on a battery "inspection." Simply use it and keep track of the range loss. As it stands now, the OP's battery appears to be an outlier as few seem to have such losses at that mileage.

Thus, it might be in his best interest to "help" it along its path to retirement by charging to a high SOC, and doing deep discharges, to "reset" the range indications. If this doesn't boost the range then perhaps it's really got a few bad cells?

If so, then best for him or her to stress it to an early death before he reaches the 8-year point . . . if possible.

Just my opinion, of course.

I would be very happy to only have the amount of degradation the OP is talking about. My 2017 MS75 started with 249 miles of range when new and now I can only get 200 miles out of it after ~32,000 miles.
I've taken it to Tesla and gotten the same speech about running it down to almost 0% and charging to 100% a couple of times. That had no effect on the range.

 

[aerodyne]

I would be very happy to only have the amount of degradation the OP is talking about. My 2017 MS75 started with 249 miles of range when new and now I can only get 200 miles out of it after ~32,000 miles.
I've taken it to Tesla and gotten the same speech about running it down to almost 0% and charging to 100% a couple of times. That had no effect on the range.

Suggest you get a copy of SMT and see if you have a weak module or string, or an excessive consumer like battery heater.

Do it soon, before your 4 year warranty runs out.

 

[ucmndd]

I would be very happy to only have the amount of degradation the OP is talking about. My 2017 MS75 started with 249 miles of range when new and now I can only get 200 miles out of it after ~32,000 miles.
I've taken it to Tesla and gotten the same speech about running it down to almost 0% and charging to 100% a couple of times. That had no effect on the range.

That would be a new record for a 75 for sure.

To be completely clear, when you say "get 200 miles out of it" you mean that a 100% charge indicates 200 range miles on the display?

What are your regular charging habits?