FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Ben W]

Imo Tesla's fsd performance surpassed waymo's as it is forced to handle much more challenging scenarios. This includes all the unreasonable 6 lane blind UPLs, needing to go 15% over the speed limit at all times, navigating through parking garages and extremely busy parking lots, etc etc. Many places waymo doesn't even touch.

My point was that Tesla FSD is still regularly failing even in really easy scenarios. If they can't solve these common issues, they will not be ready (in my book) to even remotely consider L3 or L4, or even to be considered a "useful" city-streets L2 system, regardless of whom else has been approved for what.

No autonomous system will ever make zero mistakes. It's the frequency of mistakes that is important. (And more important for more severe mistakes, of course.) If FSD goes the wrong way down a one-way street 1000x more often than its competitors, saying "But other AV's sometimes go the wrong way down a one-way street too" is not a good argument.

 

[EVNow]

Imo Tesla's fsd performance surpassed waymo'

Thats crazy. You are comparing 1 in 20 mile disengagement rate with 1 in 10,000.

I'd happily send my kids in Waymo - would you do that in a driverless FSD at this point ?

 

[Singuy]

Thats crazy. You are comparing 1 in 20 mile disengagement rate with 1 in 10,000.

I'd happily send my kids in Waymo - would you do that in a driverless FSD at this point ?

1 In 20 miles? I haven't disengaged for weeks. And my traffic is much more complex than waymo's and still haven't disengaged for weeks.

So yeah, I'll even sleep in my fsd today. I haven't seen any safety critical situations. At worst it'll get stuck.

Prior to v12.3.4, I would say no way. It would still get UPLs wrong and would go that would cause an accident. I haven't seen this even once since 12.3.4+ after making almost a hundred upl .

 

[EVNow]

So yeah, I'll even sleep in my fsd today.

Video ?

I hope you are not the type who ruins FSD for rest of us by getting into an accident because you are overconfident in its abilities.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

1 In 20 miles? I haven't disengaged for weeks. And my traffic is much more complex than waymo's and still haven't disengaged for weeks.

So yeah, I'll even sleep in my fsd today. I haven't seen any safety critical situations. At worst it'll get stuck.

Prior to v12.3.4, I would say no way. It would still get UPLs wrong and would go that would cause an accident. I haven't seen this even once since 12.3.4+ after making almost a hundred upl .

Video or it didn’t happen. Extraordinary claims…

because you are overconfident in its abilities.

Yep, these are the people who Elon says are most likely to be in a collision - the people who think they know the system.

 

[Singuy]

Video ?

I hope you are not the type who ruins FSD for rest of us by getting into an accident because you are overconfident in its abilities.

I am waiting for FSD 12.3.6 to break my confidence. When I first got v12 it made some errors in which i was not nearly as confident. It went off the road once, made upl mistakes, and couldn't complete this one turn to get onto the hwy and would dive for the median.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I am waiting for FSD 12.3.6 to break my confidence. When I first got v12 it made some errors in which i was not nearly as confident. It went off the road once, made upl mistakes, and couldn't complete this one turn to get onto the hwy and would dive for the median.

Yep, want to see all these UPLs.

 

[EVNow]

I am waiting for FSD 12.3.6 to break my confidence. When I first got v12 it made some errors in which i was not nearly as confident. It went off the road once, made upl mistakes, and couldn't complete this one turn to get onto the hwy and would dive for the median.

 

[aronth5]

My reason for total disagreement with the original post is the post is not believable when saying v11 is anywhere comparable to v12. Is v12 perfect? No, however it is light years ahead of v11, even with its problems. Very few, if any testers here have more miles on fsd than me. I've used it 100% of the time since 9/2021. Except to teach ice cars a lesson at red lights.

V12 is way better on 99% of drives then v11, full stop.
This is not debatable... except for the uninitiated and malcontents..

Agree. For anyone who disliked your post I'd be curious why. Do you think V11 is better than V12?

 

[Pdubs]

And while we are at it
They're, Their, There.
effect, affect
then, than
...

Too, To, Two

 

[FSDtester#1]

Agree. For anyone who disliked your post I'd be curious why. Do you think V11 is better than V12?

Just Alan, and nobody agrees with anything he posts except for the maladjusted,.misinformed, non users of the software.

 

[aronth5]

Another week and still no critical safety disengagements in a long time. Some regular disengagements of course.
Got me to thinking. What if I never disengaged or used the accelerator pedal what percentage of my drives would "successfully" reach the destination? Sure that would mean I'd annoy other drivers and when FSD misses or takes the wrong FSD would have to reroute. I think the biggest problem would be coming up to a construction zone where the officer/road crew person wanted me to stop since FSD doesn't respond to hand gestures. Except for this type of disengagement I find it hard to think the percentage wouldn't be over 99%. What do others think?

 

[FSDtester#1]

What do others think?

Your a smart dude with objective critic, always welcomed to see. Not a let's redefine the word "driving" type of guy. .

 

[Singuy]

View attachment 1046233


View attachment 1046234

Well, maybe FSD still sucks for you. Who knows, maybe tomorrow it'll do something stupid and wipes away my entire confidence over the past few hundred miles of disengagement free driving. We humans are just biased like that.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Agree. For anyone who disliked your post I'd be curious why. Do you think V11 is better than V12?

Fully explained. Valid complaints, definitely usage models exist with much higher intervention rate on v12 than v11.4.9. Nope to v11 being better than v12.

All depends on your usage.

 

[JulienW]

....And my traffic is much more complex than waymo's and still haven't disengaged for weeks......

So "much more complex" traffic than LA and San Francisco? Do tell where this is? Mumbai

 

[aronth5]

My reason for total disagreement with the original post is the post is not believable when saying v11 is anywhere comparable to v12. Is v12 perfect? No, however it is light years ahead of v11, even with its problems. Very few, if any testers here have more miles on fsd than me. I've used it 100% of the time since 9/2021. Except to teach ice cars a lesson at red lights.

V12 is way better on 99% of drives then v11, full stop.
This is not debatable... except for the uninitiated and malcontents..

Fully explained. Valid complaints, definitely usage models exist with much higher intervention rate on v12 than v11.4.9. Nope to v11 being better than v12.

All depends on your usage.

The point is you can never just respond with a simple answer. You always complicate whatever the post is. @FSDtester@1 was stating "V12 is way better than V11". You disagreed and mention usage. Usage had nothing to do with his post. So let's try again. Do you believe V12 is better than V11? Yes or No.

 

[Singuy]

So "much more complex" traffic than LA and San Francisco? Do tell where this is? Mumbai

Traffic manipulation is where it's at. Sitting in traffic doesn't have any value in complexity. Waymo sit in the right lane going slow mo and sits in traffic. It doesn't do blind UPLs across 4 lanes of traffic. Hell it doesn't do this maneuver where my car came out of the parking lot into 3 lane cross traffic and the car had to get into the left most lane where there's a stop light 100 ft away and then had to make a U-turn to go the opposite direction. This maneuver wouldn't have happened V11 and now it just blows my mind. There was a 100% chance in V11 it wouldn't have enough time to make it into the left turning lane.

Also my car managed to navigated out of Universal Studio's parking garage during park closure. Waymo wouldn't be able to do this unless they do a full HD map of that garage.

 

[Sharps97]

Maybe V12 is just different from V11. I wouldn’t consider it better - broken and useless is still broken and useless, it just feels a bit different. But having to disengage like every other mile isn’t fun or encouraging.

 

[Tronguy]

Yep, want to see all these UPLs.

Funny. Right. You put that sarcasm everywhere these days.

I’m on one of my periodic trips to Boston this week. There’s been some trouble, mainly to it being construction season, but I’ve been pretty much letting FSDS do its thing.

Lots of UPLs, oddball traffic circles, and you don’t want to know about Sullivan Square. But the FSDS worked through all of that: in particular, those left turns.

This time around, on 12.3.6, I let the car do its thing on narrow two way streets, with room for one car only in the middle. It handled it, not true for 12.3.1.