My theory…part of the deal with GM and Ford is for them to build superchargers at their dealerships. this will scale in a huge way with 7000 GM dealerships and 3000 ford dealerships in the US. Tesla can knock out a supercharger for $40k vs $250k that it would take GM to do it. tesla will maintain the superchargers at along routes, but this will fill in every town along the way. This will also allow people to browse the dealership lots while charging so big win for them. Win for EV drivers because you would be very close to a supercharger no matter where you are so range anxiety will not be a thing. Win for tesla because they will control the infrastructure Like how Microsoft control the operating system. The only risk is monopoly issues.
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GM just adopted NACS 🤯🤯🤯
- Thread starter cdub
- Start date
smogne41
Active Member
Dealerships are a poor place for public DC fast charging. They have limited hours for amenities like bathrooms, almost no amenities in general, poor locations for people road tripping, often nothing around of interest. Dealerships will obviously need some Level 3 and Level 2 charging to charge their inventory, but it is a poor stop for the public for general charging. Even Tesla rarely co-locates public Superchargers with Tesla stores these days.
Interesting theory, but I doubt Ford or GM would put such an overt Tesla advertisement in their dealerships.
Very much so. They are often crowded with limited parking space that they want to keep reserved for customers coming to buy cars. The last thing they want is a bunch of nerdy EV owners hanging around.
A couple of things worth noting in the announcement yesterday:
- Elon Musk never mentioned Ford. Only Mary Barra mentioned Ford.
- Mary Barra mentioned Ford specifically in the context of making NACS the North American standard.
That should be a good signal to the current administration to support NACS in NEVI funding.
It is also good with respect to GM's agreement with EVGo and Pilot. EVGo has already experimented with NACS via adapters.
(GM and Pilot Company to Build Out Coast-to-Coast EV Fast Charging Network)
- Elon Musk never mentioned Ford. Only Mary Barra mentioned Ford.
- Mary Barra mentioned Ford specifically in the context of making NACS the North American standard.
That should be a good signal to the current administration to support NACS in NEVI funding.
It is also good with respect to GM's agreement with EVGo and Pilot. EVGo has already experimented with NACS via adapters.
(GM and Pilot Company to Build Out Coast-to-Coast EV Fast Charging Network)
Maybe Tesla will have agreement to let Ford and GM dealership to service Tesla cars later.
I agree there is some chance of that. Both Ford and GM are requiring dealers to install DC fast charging. If Tesla was to make one of their 4-stall pre-fab units available with MagicDock already installed, that would be perfect for them to install. It could maybe even have custom shells that have the Ford/GM name/logo on it instead of Tesla.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
True, but they have to install chargers anyhow, and some of them do have good locations for a quick top up. It would certainly fill some holes. (Not every Supercharger site has to have great amenities or things of interest around. Just like not all gas stations do.)
Car dealerships would be better served with a greater number of L2 connections than a few DCFC.
How so? They have to have DC fast charge per contracts with the OEMs, if anything to be able to test vehicles.
Fast charging stalls give them the ability to demo how quick a charge is to customers looking at new vehicles and/or taking a test drive, and to quickly top off their own vehicles when needed.
L2 is better at places with good amenities, which isn't where dealers usually are. They also don't tend to have a lot of extra parking available.
Dealership chargers will be for a completely different purpose than road trippers. They are for residents without charging at home, for visitors in town for a few days, etc. when I visit my dad, the closest supercharger is like 40 mins away. Closest dealership is 5 mins. These chargers can also be designed as pull through so trucks can use while towing. Also, a lot of superchargers don’t have amenities. I am just saying that it was ford and gm plan to have dc fast charging at dealership, so instead of j1772, it will be tesla. Also, charging is pretty quick anyway. Usually my car is at the planned charge limit before I even order.
finman100
Member
for road tripping, DC fast charging (ie Tesla Superchargers) absolutely need, at a minimum, bathroom access. no one has traveled with the female persuasion? is no one's bladder getting smaller here? okay, TMI. but...
and some gas station bathrooms do not cut it. just saying my experience.
and some gas station bathrooms do not cut it. just saying my experience.
Think future state when GM/ford adopts the direct purchase model. they will have WAY fewer cars on the lot. Also, the inventory cars will be stored offsite so space will not be an issue. GM/Ford‘s biggest strength in this deal is their footprint. Tesla will no longer need to scout for locations to backfill every hick town.
Existing and future Superchargers will still exist and be built for road trips along highways, but these dealerships will serve a different crowd. Just like gas stations along highways are different than gas stations in town. In town gas stations usually don’t have facilities for public. Maybe think of it that way to see what I am talking about…
i don’t think that is a show stopper and a minor point. everyone knows that it is a Tesla charger anyways
Terrible, terrible idea for Tesla. Yes it "helps" their general mission of EV acceptance but it directly contradicts stockholders interests. I fully expect a significant class action lawsuit over these deals. Tesla gains nothing from this and WILL sell less cars and provide a worse ownership experience for existing owners.
Was there something I missed in these announcements that indicated Tesla would be providing Superchargers to Ford or GM? They have opened up the plug standard, but it's still talking the CCS protocol, so now anybody is free to make or retrofit chargers with the Tesla plug. Older Tesla's will still need the charge port retrofit unless Tesla opens up their protocol too.
I have a CCS1 to Tesla adapter for sale. Please PM me if interested!
smogne41
Active Member
Come on. Tesla gains:
More customers for energy.
Pushes us to a standard connector so that not only can other cars use Tesla Superchargers, but eventually Tesla's can use all other chargers (so big win for Tesla owners). Having one charging standard in the US will be good for Tesla AND everybody else (unless it turns into a monopoly).
And yes, current Tesla owners now can more easily choose cars from other brands. As an owner and shareholder I say great! Tesla needs competition so they stop making bad decision like removing stalks and USS.
Did you see the Tesla share price shoot up after the GM announcement? This GM and Ford agreement is great news for Tesla shareholders. Bring on Hyundai/KIA next!
Tam
Well-Known Member
The agreement does not indicate that Tesla would physically build fast DC chargers for them with the labels Ford/GM. Evgo is doing the physical construction for GM. The only change will be NACS Evgo instead of CCS, and those NACS stations will have the label GM on them.
What agreement does is to provide access to all North America Superchargers. Ford and GM don't need to build their own NACS stations if they don't want to.
Remember NACS is free if you build on your own so you can access your own. But access to Tesla Supercharger is not free. Thus, you now hear about the agreements.
All Tesla produced since 2012 have NACS so you don't need to upgrade to use Tesla Supercharger in any version, old or new.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The stock market disagrees with you given the stock price shot up. This move further entrenches Tesla's supercharger network and NACS and GM/Ford presumably provided upfront payments to help cover the expected extra demand (GM hinted it was in the ball park of a couple hundred million), so it only provides funding for further improvement of the network. It's a win-win overall.
The only people treating this as a lose are people treating the Supercharger as if it is a zero sum network that does not grow in capacity in response to demand, so they expect the stations to become overcrowded, when in reality the extra funding will provide extra stalls/stations.
There's also the side effect of with two major automakers on board, third party charge networks are going to be forced to adopt NACS, which means Tesla owners will no longer have to buy a CCS adapter.
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