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Has anyone sued Tesla for FSD costs?
- Thread starter edb49
- Start date
There is, I think, a significant problem here. Since the UNECE r179 regulation became part of UK law, it is at least arguable that it became legally impossible for Tesla (or anyone else for that matter) to deliver an FSD package in the UK. Supervening illegality in contract is quite complicated.
You might be right. Let’s say 110,000 Teslas in the UK. In North America 20% buy FSD. If it’s 10% here that’s 11k possible claimants at say £5.8k that’s a £63m liability. Even if only a fraction claim might be enough for one of the law firms to have a punt.
Zilla91
Active Member
Surely there's a place where Tesla can go to get regulatory approval in the UK?
The idea you can sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for approval without actually doing something doesn't sit right with me.
Why is there not even some kind of limited trial in a place like Milton Keynes or wherever they do those autonomous car trials you occasionally see at the end of the 6 o'clock news?
The idea you can sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for approval without actually doing something doesn't sit right with me.
Why is there not even some kind of limited trial in a place like Milton Keynes or wherever they do those autonomous car trials you occasionally see at the end of the 6 o'clock news?
Let’s just say it is illegal for them to fulfil the contract obligation. The remedy would still be a refund?
My loss is the £m my Tesla Robotaxi was going to make for me
I not sure how the T&Cs have changed over the years. Consider shaping the letter to cover off page 3.
That happened back in the middle of 2019, as I understand it.
Tesla Limits Autopilot In Europe Due To New UN/ECE Regulations
Update notes show that Tesla's Autopilot has indeed run afoul of UN/ECE Regulation 79, forcing the company to limit functionality in a number of countries.
www.thedrive.com
...yet Tesla were still advertising as “Coming later this year” for months beyond that features they knew (I would allege) could not reasonably be delivered in anything like that timeline, borne out by the fact that 3 years later there has been no progress and no sign of impending progress.
MrBadger
Badger out
For that to be a snag it would have needed to be actually capable of meeting a regulation. It’s doesn’t even have the functionality to do what they promised let alone be blocked by regulatory approval.
A bit like a novice driver blaming that they can’t drive because of the regulations and not because of their inability to pass the driving test.
Even what it can do it doesn’t do with any level of competence or consistency let alone be at a level of functionality where it was likely to meet regulations or deemed to be of a quality you would expect a vehicle to have.
I also don’t think “subject to regulatory approval” is the panacea that Tesla want it to be. They above all else are acutely aware of the regulations, the pace of change to them, certainly more so than customers, so the onus is on them not to make contractual promises that are impossible to keep.
If they are selling something that they know will never be delivered in the practical lifetime of the car, then I don’t think clause will defeat that.
If they are selling something that they know will never be delivered in the practical lifetime of the car, then I don’t think clause will defeat that.
They can easily claim they anticipated a faster change in regulations, and specifically called out this as a dependency that is beyond their control. Their intention to deliver is clear from the beta of FSD now available to all in the US where regulations don't prohibit.
You've had several years of value from your purchase through NOA and Lane Changing, complaining that subsequently became cheaper isn't going to hold any water just like complaining after a price drop.
Several years of value from NOA and lane changing? Yeah the exorbitant price they charge for software in permanent beta that adds very little functionality is really worth the money.
They shouldn’t make massively overly optimistic claims when they are not in control of the process. Charging people £thousands for what is, in this country, little more than vapourware in permanent beta just because they “anticipated a faster change in regulations” is just not acceptable. If Tesla promise me “automatic driving on city streets” by the end of 2019 then I expect to receive it.
The whole FSD saga, especially in this country, has been one of continual over promising and under delivering. But there is still no shortage of apologists who will try to defend the indefensible.
Even in the US with FSD Beta it's still a far cry from where it would need to be I think to work to any even alpha quality level in the UK. I work on tech so always felt this was utter rubbish about it arriving soon.
Depends on your definition, hands off driving on a motorway and then you take over ready to exit say cannot be too far off. Getting in your car and going to sleep from A to B across all the roads of this country I'd say is a good 15 - 20 years away. Might be some big breakthrough but they've only made reasonable progress on the easy stuff so far. The hard last 20% will take just as long as the first 80%, if not longer.
Depends on your definition, hands off driving on a motorway and then you take over ready to exit say cannot be too far off. Getting in your car and going to sleep from A to B across all the roads of this country I'd say is a good 15 - 20 years away. Might be some big breakthrough but they've only made reasonable progress on the easy stuff so far. The hard last 20% will take just as long as the first 80%, if not longer.
If we tried to measure the value of Summon, NoA, Lane Change, Green light chime as a percentage of the promise to deliver FSD, what % does that fulfil?
10%?
I wonder if selling EAP is actually about moving the boundary for what you’re getting when you pay for FSD as much as it is about generating revenue from selling us features.
10%?
I wonder if selling EAP is actually about moving the boundary for what you’re getting when you pay for FSD as much as it is about generating revenue from selling us features.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Indeed, but my thinking was they could stall by saying "Wait until regulations allow it, then sue us if we are still not ready" ... but I have no knowledge of law.
Letter before action has gone off now. They have 28 days...
But this is what you will need to prove, you paid some money to get the only option that was available at that time and received the capabilities that were advertised as being available. If you want a total refund you will need to show that you received no value and bought purely on the anticipation of getting City Streets driving by the end of the year, despite the caveat that this would need new regulations. They can also point to the numerous press releases from the DoT that 'self driving cars' will be available 'next year' for at least the last 2 years. https://www.nationalworld.com/lifes...e-permitted-on-uk-motorways-this-year-3216552
If you plan to argue that the features you did receive are defective is a different type of case.
I'm not defending Tesla as I agree they overstated the position, but I doubt you would succeed in any legal proceedings.
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