Model 3 Standard Range (Canada) Range: 150km

[willow_hiller]

At the very least, some verified purchases of the SR- will prevent Tesla from getting in trouble with the feds.

I was half worried they were going to be accused of not selling any of the SR- and making a fictitious trim to qualify for the federal rebate.

 

[Kappelan]

Not sure where you're seeing any new Leaf with such low range numbers

That why I said people were buying. Apparently, if they were, it was enough range for them. First Leafs (up to 2015 year), i3, Kia Soul they all were coming with similar to 150 km range...

If someone is driving 20-50 km daily that's more than enough.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

That why I said people were buying. Apparently, if they were, it was enough range for them. First Leafs (up to 2015 year), i3, Kia Soul they all were coming with similar to 150 km range...

If someone is driving 20-50 km daily that's more than enough.

Yeah but a leaf of that era was starting around ~32kish IIRC with rebates on top in the places they actually sold any. For example in Ontario you got up to around $12k off I think for the base Leaf. That's an apple/oranges situation here with the significant price delta.

Again, I don't much care what people spend their money on, I was just very surprised anyone would spend so much money on such a low value proposition.

 

[Kappelan]

Yeah but a leaf of that era was starting around ~32kish IIRC with rebates on top in the places they actually sold any. For example in Ontario you got up to around $12k off I think for the base Leaf. That's an apple/oranges situation here with the significant price delta.

Again, I don't much care what people spend their money on, I was just very surprised anyone would spend so much money on such a low value proposition.

I agree with you on that. That is not a good buy for the money and by 2019 standards the range is very low and the resale value wouldn't be the best.

What is the price in BC for that 150 km SR would be considering their rebates + the federal one? About $35,000 no?

 

[Amdax]

Not sure where you're seeing any new Leaf with such low range numbers. Plus in ON/BC the previous Leaf had a lower starting price and took advantage of the provincial rebates at the time as well.



Yeah. And yup, nothing under the SR+ comes with AP standard. You're right, people can spend their money on whatever they want but that doesn't mean it's a good buy at the end of the day. Tesla sales people actively try to talk people off the ledge when trying to buy the crippled trim in Canada.

I think everyone has different priorities and situations when it comes to choosing a car. For many it may be range or resale value, but for someone for which this a second car, drives an average of 25KM a day, lives in a mild climate year-round, and who keeps their cars for a long time, it doesn’t necessarily make sense to spend an extra $10K plus extra 1-3% BC PST penalty on the whole purchase price.

To clarify, my car does have Autopilot and I use it on occasion in rush hour traffic or highway driving, albeit not very often.

 

[dandan]

Thanks for the info. Does it show anything special on your screen when you tap the Tesla T? Just "Standard Range"?

SR+ still currently. Can confirm Amdax’s acceleration downgrade as well, but still plenty fast... I do see some slight efficiency improvement as a result too.

Immersive sound, front heated seats still included.

 

[SmartElectric]

I have driven 50000 km on an EV with 60 km range in bad weather. Range isn't everything.
Reference : MSRP of my Smart ED was $34K, it came with every available option except convertible. Whereas with rebate and negotiation I drove away for $19K.

For MSRP of $44K, Tesla has not de-contented the Model 3 SR enough for it to be ignored.

A $40K (Ontario sale with federal rebate) Tesla Model 3 with comfort, safety and rear wheel drive with 150 km range is something I would buy if I was cash constrained but wanted the best possible commuting vehicle for the lowest initial cost.

Then again, for another $10K for the SR+ you will get some of your initial delta back on resale anyway, so I don't see the purpose of the SR from that perspective.

When shopping used for a Tesla S back in 2015, I only considered loaded 85's. Even if the 60's were going for $7K cheaper, there was no point. I strictly buy the cars with the most options. I didn't consider the P85 at the time because after a test drive, I didn't think the extra $ for quicker initial performance, but same highway acceleration was worth it. Just checked, and for 6+ year old Tesla's, the S60, P85 and S85 are nearly the same price on used market, so my decision worked out to not spend the extra $10K from a resale value perspective.

All this to say, I bet these compliance cars will still be worth a good chunk of change on the used market.

 

[moontrbl]

I don't think SR- owners will have as big of a problem selling their car as people here are claiming they will.

Even in the worst case scenario where Tesla doesn't allow a range upgrade for the 150km cars, which I'm pretty sure they will and is just a matter of time, EV support will grow. That also means more charging stations available to help with general range anxiety. Eventually, public perception of charging troubles will go away and the short-distance commuters who don't need a lot of range but want an EV are going to be looking for a solution. The SR- fills that niche very nicely.

 

[thesteve]

I don't think SR- owners will have as big of a problem selling their car as people here are claiming they will.

Even in the worst case scenario where Tesla doesn't allow a range upgrade for the 150km cars, which I'm pretty sure they will and is just a matter of time, EV support will grow. That also means more charging stations available to help with general range anxiety. Eventually, public perception of charging troubles will go away and the short-distance commuters who don't need a lot of range but want an EV are going to be looking for a solution. The SR- fills that niche very nicely.

I agree, in addition it’ll possibly almost never have any battery degradation so that’s kind of cool

 

[SmartElectric]

I agree, in addition it’ll possibly almost never have any battery degradation so that’s kind of cool

Actually, that's not certain. Like Tesla Kim found that by charging to lower state of charge (because she feared battery degradation), their battery pack was actually unbalanced and had the opposite effect she hoped for. There's a video of that on her you tube.

I don't want to make baseless claims either way, we will see. I just don't think we can claim range restriction (reducing maximum cell voltage) is a net positive for pack health.

For example, our 2013 Tesla S85 has <3% degradation after 6.5 years and 140000 km charged to 90% daily and 100% 50+ times per year.

 

[MP3Mike]

I agree, in addition it’ll possibly almost never have any battery degradation so that’s kind of cool

Two things:

1. You are still going to have standard calendar degradation.
2. I thought keeping the SoC that low was bad for the battery.

Tesla really should have locked the charge window to 40-70% or something rather than 0-30% to make the battery last longer. (Of course charging is likely faster where it is now.)

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

The people who opted for the SR- are actually ahead. Once the Warranty runs out, they can dismantle the pack and get some fresh batteries out of it and sell it on the used market or use it for a backup home system. By that time, someone will have found out how to hack the SR- system to retain 150kms.

SMRT

 

[MP3Mike]

The people who opted for the SR- are actually ahead. Once the Warranty runs out, they can dismantle the pack and get some fresh batteries out of it and sell it on the used market or use it for a backup home system. By that time, someone will have found out how to hack the SR- system to retain 150kms.

It doesn't work that way. The SR- still uses all of the cells in the pack. And there are only four modules that can be taken out, and if you remove any of them you no longer have the proper voltage for operating the car.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

It doesn't work that way. The SR- still uses all of the cells in the pack. And there are only four modules that can be taken out, and if you remove any of them you no longer have the proper voltage for operating the car.

Either way, they can replace the SR pack with a LR pack (future option) and still be ahead since they paid for a 150km pack while getting a 400km pack.

In theory it is doable - they just have reduced current output (slower acceleration?) You can rearrange the cells to 480V (probably reduce life too on each individual cell as they'll cycle more often).

 

[thesteve]

Two things:

1. You are still going to have standard calendar degradation.
2. I thought keeping the SoC that low was bad for the battery.

Tesla really should have locked the charge window to 40-70% or something rather than 0-30% to make the battery last longer. (Of course charging is likely faster where it is now.)

Yes seems to be an unknown sorry not sure it’ll work that way. However the car is only using 30-40% of the battery so if the battery pack degrades to 90% from 100% will Tesla degrade the portion of battery being used? I doubt it but who knows

 

[MP3Mike]

However the car is only using 30-40% of the battery so if the battery pack degrades to 90% from 100% will Tesla degrade the portion of battery being used? I doubt it but who knows

Yes they do. You are allowed to charge to x% of total capacity. So if total capacity is reduced so is your portion of it.(At least that is how the software limit has worked on the Model S 40/60/70 and the Model X 60. (Very few Model X 60s were sold.)

 

[MP3Mike]

In theory it is doable - they just have reduced current output (slower acceleration?)

Yeah via software. So you just have to root the car and update the configuration. (The same thing required to unlock the full SR+ pack, or swap the pack to an LR.)

You can rearrange the cells to 480V (probably reduce life too on each individual cell as they'll cycle more often).

No you can't. Well I suppose you could by designing new modules to replace the ones the car comes with. Of course the car isn't designed for higher voltage so you would probably blow stuff up. (Assuming the car doesn't see the higher voltage and refuse to turn the pack on at all.) The modules can't really be dissembled. Everything is glued/welded together and then is foamed in place with what appears to be a fire retardant/thermal conductor.

 

[moontrbl]

I still have a hard time seeing Tesla not allowing a range upgrade at some point in the future. Whether that's 1-3 years from now who knows. My guess is it will come once either the SR+ sales cool down or the incentive budget(s) runs out.

 

[SmartElectric]

I still have a hard time seeing Tesla not allowing a range upgrade at some point in the future. Whether that's 1-3 years from now who knows. My guess is it will come once either the SR+ sales cool down or the incentive budget(s) runs out.

We do not know if Tesla agreed to stipulations with government incentives to lock capacity permanently.
This may not be within Tesla's legal control to do, and we are not party to those details.

The incentive was very specific on price, Tesla choose to sell a restricted SR- vehicle specifically to that price so the SR+ would qualify.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

If I learned anything watching youtube... Tinkerers will tinker