Poll - Who really need a model 2?

[alsetyledom280]

Model 3 is great and really good looking in many ways. It is a small car.

Model Y is best volume and best $ selling model any car model in 2023.

Few cares about S and X these days per sales number

CT is a flop most likely.

Semi is for light potato chips load only so far.

Model Y already at 29K after all tax and fuel savings. You can hardly buy a quality new car at 29k or 36k these days.

In general bigger cars are safer cars for driver and passengers inside.

Who really needs a cheaper and smaller model 2 (ignore wall street analysts for now). Musk will not win low cost car making from global perspective any way. I think Musk is right. Working on FSD is a better way out for Tesla. Robotaxi can use model 3 (just take off steering wheel?)

We need Detroit auto makers and their employees. Racing to bottom price does not help anyone in the end for our country.

 

[FatFalcon]

I bought a 3 because it was the smallest decent-charging 200+ mile EV out there. If there was something smaller, I would buy that in a heartbeat.

 

[father_of_6]

Is $25k model 2 realistic in 2025 (implies you will buy it in 2025 when it is available)

Why does it imply that I'd buy one if I think it can be done? That's definitely going to skew the poll.

Semi is for light potato chips load only so far.

The Tesla Semi has the same load capacity as other trucks like it... 80k lbs including the truck itself. The truck/trailer weight are the same as others too.

We need Detroit auto makers and their employees. Racing to bottom price does not help anyone in the end for our country.

Disagree. How many American TV manufacturers are there? China is coming, and if US auto manufacturers don't get their butts in gear, the only car brands available to our grandchildren will be BYD, NIO, Xpeng, Wuling, Geely, Zeekr, Xiaomi, and Vinfast.

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I didn't vote in the poll, but I think this is silly. If Tesla can profitability produce a $25k car, it would sell like hotcakes. That's probably the issue - they know it would cannibalize sales of the Models 3/Y and would be less profitable.

Still, it should be done.

 

[father_of_6]

Oh... "Is it realistic in 2025?" - probably not.

 

[byeLT4]

I voted no. This will be a bit long winded but I'll try and make it as short as possible. I'd love to get my wife into an EV. She's putting around in her little Hyundai Accent right now happy as a lark. She panics when the car's range gets below 150 (enough to get her to and from work three days...). Max range on that car is 400 but it's a realistic 400. She get gas once a week. Even though we'd be plugging in at home, I can see range being an issue. Absolutely silly, but, knowing her personality and her quirks, it is what it is. Zero chance the 25k Tesla has more range than the 3 or Y. Zero chance of us getting that car.

The new LR model Y has caught my eye. If they move that pack to the 3, and the 3 can go over a 400 range, I'd start to push her. But then it'll have more range than the LR S and I don't think they'll let that happen. Any idea if it's even coming to the US (since we're all speculating here)?

 

[zoomer0056]

Model 3 is great and really good looking in many ways. It is a small car.

Model Y is best volume and best $ selling model any car model in 2023.

Few cares about S and X these days per sales number

CT is a flop most likely.

Semi is for light potato chips load only so far.

Model Y already at 29K after all tax and fuel savings. You can hardly buy a quality new car at 29k or 36k these days.

In general bigger cars are safer cars for driver and passengers inside.

Who really needs a cheaper and smaller model 2 (ignore wall street analysts for now). Musk will not win low cost car making from global perspective any way. I think Musk is right. Working on FSD is a better way out for Tesla. Robotaxi can use model 3 (just take off steering wheel?)

We need Detroit auto makers and their employees. Racing to bottom price does not help anyone in the end for our country.

Are price and size the only considerations?

 

[LoudMusic]

Just because you don't want one doesn't mean others don't want one. I have no use for an F150 or a Camry but they're the best selling vehicles in the world.

 

[Dear_OP]

Does it have to be a brand new design? Why not have a de-contented Model 3 (or Y) and be done with it?
I think $25k pre-rebate is certainly a good milestone to hit. I think the only one that's in that price point was the Chevy Bolt. That car's format would work great for urban dwellers and commuters that don't need long range.

 

[mborkow]

I’d be interested in the Model 2 as long as it was a hatchback. If it’s a sedan, I’d prob stick with Model Y.

 

[BobHinden]

Impossible to answer without knowing its range, cost, and features.

I may replace my 2018 M3 in a few years, so I would take a look at it once more info is available.

 

[alsetyledom280]

Just because you don't want one doesn't mean others don't want one. I have no use for an F150 or a Camry but they're the best selling vehicles in the world.

I fully agree. It is not about a preference of a person or a cohort. It is mass market adoption.

I think it is a bit absurd to use upcoming model 2 to justify Tesla market cap valuation. Neither model 2 nor CT would justify Tesla current mkt cap. Toyota has 5x of sales of Tesla and 1/3 of mkt cap vs TSLA.

However with stalling sales of model 3 and model y, Tesla needs sth to improve on its cash flow, that being a refreshed 3 or y or new 2.

So model 2 is just a mean, not target or goal of Tesla, their goal is FSD and licensing of FSD.

Hence I asked question who will need a model 2. It is a mis-aligned product release from the start in my view. Tesla was forced to release model 2 to satisfy investor and its own cash flow (has nothing to do with we want model 2 or not)

 

[father_of_6]

Toyota has 5x of sales of Tesla and 1/3 of mkt cap vs TSLA.

Market cap is meaningless... it's emotional. Investors hoping to get rich.

Tesla was forced to release model 2 to satisfy investor and its own cash flow (has nothing to do with we want model 2 or not)

It's the opposite. Tesla had a planned Model 2 (our name, not theirs) but cancelled it because of profits. If it's back on, it's because it fills a need in the market and Tesla overall is starting to lose its competitive advantage.

 

[Rocket_man]

Assuming it is a hatch back my wife would buy one today if it were available. Not sure she can wait since her current car is 9 years old. She might take my Model 3 hand-me-down if I end up buying a Model Y Juniper. I think Tesla is too slow on the new car process and update process. Shocking since I expected them to be faster than old school auto, but they are not.

 

[LoudMusic]

I fully agree. It is not about a preference of a person or a cohort. It is mass market adoption.

I think it is a bit absurd to use upcoming model 2 to justify Tesla market cap valuation. Neither model 2 nor CT would justify Tesla current mkt cap. Toyota has 5x of sales of Tesla and 1/3 of mkt cap vs TSLA.

However with stalling sales of model 3 and model y, Tesla needs sth to improve on its cash flow, that being a refreshed 3 or y or new 2.

So model 2 is just a mean, not target or goal of Tesla, their goal is FSD and licensing of FSD.

Hence I asked question who will need a model 2. It is a mis-aligned product release from the start in my view. Tesla was forced to release model 2 to satisfy investor and its own cash flow (has nothing to do with we want model 2 or not)

Tesla has opened the Supercharger network to other manufacturers. That alone has the potential to generate significant cashflow. Once the software is updated, all future energy sales are profit with near zero additional investment cost.

I also think a "Model 2" or something similar will be produced, at least for the European market where vehicles smaller than the Model 3 are desired. I'm not sure how well it would do in North America where the Model Y is essentially the ideal vehicle.

As far as justifying market cap valuation, Tesla has never fit into the traditional valuation strategy. Similar to Apple, Tesla has a bizarre warping effect on people's spending habits.

 

[gt2690b]

Just because you don't want one doesn't mean others don't want one. I have no use for an F150 or a Camry but they're the best selling vehicles in the world.

you forgot MODEL Y

 

[thyname]

Model 3 in my opinion IS the “model 2”. Just make it a bit cheaper or a slightly “watered down” version of it. On the same platform.

Few cares about S and X these days per sales number

I disagree. Model S, and especially Model X (those that qualify for the federal tax credit/ rebate) are valid choices in their price points for what they offer. And their sales numbers are solid for their price point (volume per price)

 

[father_of_6]

Model 2 could be 2-door, hatchback, even smaller, 15" cheapest wheels, RWD only, just a rear backup camera, 11" screen, very basic audio, only available in 3 colors.

 

[WyoDude]

In general bigger cars are safer cars for driver and passengers inside.

Tell that to the rest of the world

Who really needs a cheaper and smaller model 2

Check out the avg car sizes around the globe
Then go check out avg incomes around the globe
Then check avg US household income

Musk will not win low cost car making from global perspective any way.

Doesn’t have to win, just needs market share which they’ve already proven consumers want their product. And if it was cheaper, more of them would want it.

We need Detroit auto makers and their employees

Racing to bottom price does not help anyone in the end for our country.

Agreed and it’s not about killing off Detroit. It’s about forcing them to compete. Which is good and will help keep some of them from dying.

 

[Watts_Up]

Smaller size and smaller price, I would say yes for both !!!

Especially if you live or park in a city.
Also the Model 2 will certainly have a hatchback making it more practical than the Model 3.

Tesla needs both making a "smaller" Model 3 but also a "longer" Model Y with real 3rd row seat and cheaper than the Model X.

 

[LarryClay]

When we talk about Model 2, then it must be realized that US of A is not the only car market on the planet for Tesla.

And it is pretty evident that tanking Tesla sales are also due to lack of products - new models are needed for capturing new markets.
Whoever wanted 3 and Y has already bought it. Not much to do here.

Model S and X are also aging wheels now. Needing more updates and luxury in their respective luxury car price segments.

And most of the world still drives and will continue to drive cars below Tesla Model 3 in size. Here is where the masses are.

And once you have sorted production issues, which has been done, it is time to scale out with new models and variants of existing models.

Toyota in my country has 17 car models currently being sold. Other big automakers, like VW are in the same ballpark.