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Snippiness 2.0
- Thread starter TexasEV
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So there isn't suppose to be any discussion about CT issues? It's been 4 years, over promised, under delivered, and some don't see a need to discuss it?
I get that there may not be enough positive CT threads/topics but that isn't the fault of TMC members.
I get that there may not be enough positive CT threads/topics but that isn't the fault of TMC members.
Cybertruck insurance premiums will be astronomical once insurers realize the complexity and costs to repair such a unique niche vehicle... per the CT forum USAA has the CT in their system and quotes $200+ / month (they are a very good insurer) and Tesla insurance is $160+ month but we know it only will go up from there.
Leeclanual
Member
Nope, only positives as if their life depended on it.
It’s funny how there have been several members come in here and the first thing they post is how much the “Debbie Downers” are getting paid…
I am starting to think those are stock holders who depend on Tesla ad any criticism of their product is a no go.
They have resulted to insults instead of counter arguments. I mean, I understand.
$100k + with all sorts of missing features, I’d be upset also.
fiehlsport
Tire Guy
Didn’t click your link. Thought it to be silly that someone would put a referral link, sort of like the old school days here when referral IDs would be spammed.Yep… made enough to cover my CT by pushing Prep H
Thanks for making it easier to add to the ignore list.
canasion35
Active Member
$200+ is not bad for right now...our 2014 model s is $250 through SF in FL. But like you mentioned, insurers learned the cost of repair the early model S' and jacked up the prices. Will be interesting to track CT insurance rates over the next 24-months.
I don't consider myself a basher as much as a realist and I still think the CT looks dope as hell.
Thing is, like many others, I had a CT deposit and was excited about the possibilities. When I placed that deposit, I didn't understand EV's particularly well.
In time, I sort of made it my mission to deep dive into EV's and just learn a lot, and truthfully it wasn't just the shortcomings of the CT that made me cancel my deposit but instead through that gained knowledge it became extraordinarily clear to me that a 500 mile range EV pickup, built by Tesla for < $60K was completely impossible.
You see, Tesla gets their range estimates by doing about 3 things combined: 1) they strip the vehicle to assist with obtaining the lightest weight (and cheapest cost) possible, 2) they use a small battery pack to further reduce weight, 3) they exaggerate, a lot! This is ultimately why a MY has a battery pack of 57.5 or 75 KwHs, where-as a Lyriq has a 105 KwH battery pack, and they both presumable have the same 'range'. In reality that Lyriq can come very close to that range even in inclement weather, with a bike rack hanging off the back, cold temps, etc. where-as the MY never will unless all conditions are ideal.
It was simple math to look at the cost of a MY and its small battery pack and real-world range, and to see very clearly that Tesla was never going to be able to provide an appropriately sized battery pack, to push a pickup truck on AT tires around in mixed conditions, and obtain 500 miles of range at the prices promised by Musk. There is no magic but just energy in, energy out. I guess what bothers me is that Musk knew this to be true all along. He's no dummy.
This newfound knowledge lead me to the inevitable conclusions that: 1) the KwH's needed to operate a FS SUV or Truck, results in an expensive but also not environmentally sound battery pack size, 2) the appropriate application for an EV is a light/ small passenger car, in a multi-vehicle household where the EV has dedicated long term parking, 3) A plug in series hybrid just makes much more sense for large 'work' vehicles, and no major advances in battery technology in the next 5-8 years is going to change that reality.
It isn't horrible, except it's more than double what I pay for insurance on an $87K F150. Now consider this, driving 20K miles/ year I spend less than $2.5K/ annually on fuel or $208/ month.
Once you consider the higher insurance costs, extreme tire wear from special low tread EV tires that wear quickly, higher registration costs in many states ($200 extra/ year in TX), cost of setting up Level 2 charging at home, inconvenience, the real-world higher maintenance costs with EVs, loss of capability, extreme depreciation, where is the EV savings?
agree with all, Except expecting a luxury vehicle (most people are buying CTs as a statement vehicle, with some side benefits of doing stuff if we're being honest) to not depreciate is unreasonable.
however, to add nuance, I highly doubt a CT will depreciate for its first few years. the only thing that will predictably depreciate the CT is the quantity of CTs. when that happens is speculation, and my speculation is it will take Tesla at least 2 more years to achieve a run rate + market saturation where there is enough of a quantity of CTs in existence for meaningful depreciation. I base this on the the Model 3.
FastEddieB
Member
That’s more like it. A clear, concise explanation of the situation as you see it.
And you managed it without using the word “turd”!
I know I will have to wait a while but I'm interested in the used resale value of the Cybertruck in 3 to 5 years. How much range will it have Towing and empty? Will people looking for a used Truck that will meet their needs purchase an ICE Truck or the Cybertruck?
I think the used value will be determined by what Tesla does with their used inventory. 3 to 5 years I see these at $50k with 30k miles.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
I have to counterpoint a few things here. Insurance could be more, especially for something like the Cybertruck. But, that's not always the case. While we bounce around a bit between insurers, our Tesla Model S and Model 3 have had okay insurance prices.
Tires have not been an issue. No noticeable lifetime difference from other cars I've had. I don't know, maybe it would be different if you compared it to say a minivan or some other bland boring car. But comparing it to other cars I've owned, like a 2011 Mustang GT, the tires last at least as long. Some of that is just in how you drive it. If you are taking advantage of that 3 second 0-60 all the time, sure, the tires will wear out more quickly than on a typical car.
Higher maintenance costs is not a thing. My EVs have needed almost zero maintenance. The only maintenance has been on silly tech things like the extending door handles on the Model S that like to fail.
If you mostly charge at home, the cost per mile definitely beats gasoline. It's only when you compare to the overpriced CCS fast chargers out there that the fuel costs look bad (0.48 per kWh vs 0.12 per kWh is an enormous difference; imagine if you could put gasoline in your car at home for $3 per gallon, but the gas station was charging $12 per gallon). Those prices are a concern for now, but should become cheaper in time when the infrastructure becomes more common.
Setting up L2 charging at home can cost a bit in some cases, but at least it's just a one time cost. Once it's there, it's always there.
Higher registration costs is a thing, but I hate to hold that against EVs. It's only a thing because anti-EV politicians are trying to tax the hell out of EVs (because Republicans love to tax people? The recent major increases in fees and taxes in Missouri was sponsored by a Republican in St. Louis), resulting in EVs costing 2x, 4x or more compared to the gas taxes that the increased registration fees are supposed to cover for.
Depreciation is probably a real issue that will continue for some time. The long term good news there is it's largely just fear driven. People are afraid they will need to replace expensive batteries every 5 years. Once it becomes commonplace to see 20 year old EVs driving around on their original batteries, I think that fear will subside and depreciation will no longer be an issue.
Long story short, there are some negatives to EVs right now, but there are benefits as well. And everything is on track to continue to improve to where I think EVs will match or exceed gas cars in all areas within the next 20 years. But if you want to wait until that becomes a reality, I completely understand that. I'll take the few negatives for now because I can afford it, see the long term benefits, and want to support the technology. It's got a bright future, but granted it is still a work in progress right now. Though perhaps not as bad as you think.
I agree. To add, it's not just the DC recharge time, it's the battery life and replacement cost. IMO, That is a bigger deal then the DC charging time. The underlying battery technology is the same across manufacturers, and the calendar aging of batteries is a real thing. We are seeing low mileage EV's with the battery reaching EOL around the 10 year mark. The range on my 7 year old EV has degraded by ~20% from when new, and when it eventually fails it will be prohibitively expensive to fix. The average (non-enthusiast) vehicle buyer just isn't going to tolerate that. GM seems to be the only maker on the right track there, as small battery sections can be replaced (at a lower cost) verses the entire pack with their Ultium system. Ten years ago when I bought my first EV, people were saying then that the cost would come down to no different than a transmission replacement. That didn't come to be. Batteries still have a very long way to go.
I mean, if you're going to join a criminal gang like Tesla, you're going to have to get your hands dirty doing some serious lying as you work your way up the criminal organization.
Do yourself a favor and buy a different brand. Seriously, any brand.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Yet another that didn't bother to read and comprehend OP's question...
Yet another useless reply.
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