Tesla Unionization

[2daMoon]

This may help some in understanding some of the complexities of Tesla vs IF Metall.

Ett nej är ett nej – även när det gäller kollektivavtal

Fackpampar måste förstå att kollektivavtal inte passar alla företag och respektera att ett nej är...

www.foretagarna.se

A no is a no - even when it comes to collective agreements​

Published Nov 16, 2023

Trade unions must understand that collective agreements do not suit all companies and respect that a no is a no, writes Företagarna's labor law expert Lise-Lotte Argulander.

The battle that is now going on between IF Metall and Tesla is absurd. IF Metall uses its right to take industrial action according to Swedish law, but why? Is it because Tesla has such bad terms and benefits or is it just a power play? So far, only a small percentage of Tesla workers appear to be on strike. Despite the fact that there are pickets outside their workplace in yellow vests. 

Here in Sweden in 2023, the unions can play mafia to impose collective agreements on companies that they do not want. Take sympathetic measures to stop mail delivery and block loading. It is unreasonable and harmful that other companies that are bound by collective agreements and are under a duty of peace are forced into this battle. And not only companies, innocent private individuals are also in trouble now that the painters union refuses to paint Tesla cars.

The union's threat affects those who are small ​

I'm not here to defend Tesla; I have no insight into their terms or benefits. Tesla is a giant company owned by the world's richest man and Sweden is a minimal market for them. They can hold out, or for that matter leave the country, without major financial losses. A flooring company in Västervik or an advertising agency in Sveg do not have that opportunity, which are blackmailed in the same way. The smaller a company is, the more likely it is that they will not be able to withstand the threat of unions. 

When you are in the middle of the battle, it can sometimes appear that the opposite of collective bargaining is slavery and anarchy. What does it actually look like? Six out of ten small companies choose not to sign a collective agreement. We have legislation that places certain requirements on employers in the form of, among other things, the Working Hours Act, the Holiday Act, the Sick Pay Act and, not least, the Work Environment Act. The only significant thing that is not governed by law is the wage level, but there is a practice that an employer must pay a fair wage and that an employee can challenge it in court if this is not the case. 

Unreasonable sympathy measures​

If the employer has equal or better benefits and conditions, significantly higher pay than the minimum wage in the collective agreement and has signed the insurances and pension agreements that they and their employees are satisfied with, shouldn't that be enough?  

Not according to Swedish legislation. Other countries often have a principle of proportionality and prohibition of unreasonable sympathy measures to create more equal conditions in the labor market. Not us, despite the fact that all bourgeois parties announced in 2017 that they wanted to limit the right to strike and the right to resort to sympathetic measures. Why is it so quiet now at the government? We must be able to agree on some kind of limitation on sympathy measures. In Sweden, we have the Swedish model where the company in practice stands no chance if the union has made up its mind. Other agreements signed under threat have every right to be annulled. But when the unions threaten to reach an agreement, that's perfectly fine. 

Freedom of contract is important. Trade unions need to understand that a no is a no and that voluntariness is the basis for a good dialogue and an agreement that both parties want. Collective agreements are often good, but they do not suit all companies. Respect it. 

My goodness, so many of my questions have been addressed in this article. It is like this person read through our discussion here and applied logic, reason, and reviewed the existing legal requirements to make an assessment.

That assessment concludes with the fact that Tesla is outperforming union levels of pay and meeting all legal qualifications. Including saying no to entering into a collective agreement.

Whoda thunk it?

 

[Krugerrand]

Please, read through the above discussion and do your best to offer answers to questions made in order to better understand the IF Metall actions, goals, and strategy for achieving them.

So far, none of those "contributors" consistently beating the drum for IF Metall have made an attempt to offer explanation for these straight-forward queries.

Then, with that out of the way, we may talk openly about who is brainwashed and who isn't.

Don’t waste your time.

 

[EVNow]

What existing union is not EV friendly?

I have not seen the latest statements by UAW - but at one time they were opposed to EVs because they feared that will cut jobs.

But now with battery plant being included in the negotiations, they may have changed their position.

Bottomline is - UAW (or other unions) does not care whether the workers are producing ICE or EVs - as long as the workers aren't needed anymore. BTW, look at VW unions - they aren't thrilled about EVs. Traditionally, climate change has been the main dividing line between unions and liberals in the US - for eg. UAW has long opposed more stringent emission / mileage requirement for cars.

 

[TSemi]

Also good:

Five myths about collective agreements

Can you be a good employer with fair conditions without having signed a collective agreement?

www.beyondo.se

About half a million Swedes work in companies that do not have collective agreements. Their employers have found better and smoother ways to regulate wages and employment conditions. As many as six out of ten companies with fewer than fifty employees are outside the party model. There should be nothing strange about that, because there is freedom of contract and freedom to conduct a business. Despite this, it is common to hear claims that there is something suspicious about companies that have not signed collective agreements.

− (SV) Employers' organisations and trade unions that negotiate collective agreements are good at highlighting the benefits of the party model. Then it is easy to forget that they do not speak for the entire labour market, says Lise-Lotte Argulander, Företagarna's expert on labour law.
There are many myths about collective agreements that reinforce the image that the companies that have not signed them do so for reasons that must be suspect. In fact, collective agreements are poorly adapted to the everyday lives of smaller companies and often lack sufficient flexibility.

Let's take a closer look at five myths about collective bargaining.

Myth 1. Collective agreements are proof that the company is serious​

Not true. There is no guarantee that a company is serious in the roleof employer or in a broader sense conducts its business in a serious way, just because it has signed a collective agreement. Rogue entrepreneurs are rogue precisely because they do not follow laws and regulations. There are just as good cabbage drinkers among those who have collective agreements as among those who do not, says Lise-Lotte Argulander. At the same time, it is important to remember that the vast majority of companies – with or without collective agreements – are serious companies.

Myth 2. Companies with collective agreements have better employment conditions​

Not true. The vast majority of companies have as good conditions as they can afford. This applies to both salary and other terms of employment. The smallest companies may find it difficult to pay for provisions for occupational pensions and insurance, but then it is not a question of giving employees worse conditions than the entrepreneur himself has. According to Lise-Lotte Argulander, however, the vast majority of companies that have been in operation for a while and have at least a handful of employees have at least as good conditions in terms of occupational pension and insurance as larger companies that have signed collective agreements where such are included in the agreement.

Myth 3. Companies with collective agreements provide more secure employment​

Not true. The Employment Protection Act, LAS, is semi-dispositive. This means that parts of it can be waived via individual agreements or through collective agreements. This may involve, for example, having shorter notice periods, more flexible working hours than the law stipulates and agreeing on other things that make it easier for the employer to have greater flexibility in employment relationships than the legislation allows. For example, several collective agreements contain intermittent forms of employment, such as "extra when needed". This means that the employer can call in people on short shifts of a few hours or single days when the business so requires, in LAS this form of employment does not exist. It is good that it exists and it is needed, but you rarely hear representatives of the union talk about the disadvantages of it, says Lise-Lotte Argulander.

Myth 4. Collective agreements are always best for workers​

Not true. As in all labour market negotiations, the employer side gains certain advantages, the employees others. Collective agreements involve deviations from legislation, which often makes employment conditions more flexible for the employer. Take, for example, the Working Hours Act. It is quite strict. According to it, working hours should be calculated as an average over a four-week period, but in some collective agreements the period has been extended to more than twenty weeks, to give the employer the necessary flexibility in scheduling," says Lise-Lotte Argulander. The Working Hours Act also contains a ban on night work, which is negotiated away in many collective agreements.

Myth 5. Collective agreements create predictable conditions for everyone​

Not true. Collective agreements are secret. It is therefore not possible to stand outside the party model and ask to know what is in them. The answer is that the company must sign the agreement in order to access the fine print content," says Lise-Lotte Argulander.

 

[2daMoon]

I have not seen the latest statements by UAW - but at one time they were opposed to EVs because they feared that will cut jobs.

But now with battery plant being included in the negotiations, they may have changed their position.

Bottomline is - UAW (or other unions) does not care whether the workers are producing ICE or EVs - as long as the workers aren't needed anymore. BTW, look at VW unions - they aren't thrilled about EVs. Traditionally, climate change has been the main dividing line between unions and liberals in the US - for eg. UAW has long opposed more stringent emission / mileage requirement for cars.

Oh good, so the unions are doing everything they can to hinder the transition to sustainable energy and save the world.

Glad you have cleared that up as we would have been unlikely to have figured that out on our own. What, with our brains having been washed and all.

Thanks!

 

[2daMoon]

Myth 5. Collective agreements create predictable conditions for everyone
Not true. Collective agreements are secret. It is therefore not possible to stand outside the party model and ask to know what is in them. The answer is that the company must sign the agreement in order to access the fine print content," says Lise-Lotte Argulander.

We may have discovered the fly in the ointment for Tesla Sweden.

Who in their right mind would enter into an agreement to abide by terms they are not allowed to see until after they have signed?

 

[Zuikkis]

Here's the Finnish union announcement, directly from themselves:

The AKT executive committee decided on sympathy actions for Tesla

In the meeting 7th of December Finnish Transport Workers´ Union AKT´s executive committee decided that AKT also joins with other unions to support Tesla workers. Blockade of Tesla vehicles starts in all the ports 20th December. That means Tesla vehicles or components destined to Swedish markets...

www.akt.fi

I doubt it has any effect. If you look at the map, Finland is not very logical route to get cars from Belgium to Sweden.

Heh. Looks like AKT has much more trouble than Tesla sympathy strike.

Auto- ja kuljetusalan työntekijäliitto ajautui kriisiin: Liiton työntekijät nousivat johtoa vastaan

Auto- ja kuljetusalan työntekijäliiton (AKT) työntekijät eivät menneet tänään työpaikoilleen mielenilmauksena johtoa vastaan. Puheenjohtaja Ismo Kokko sanoo olevansa yllättynyt kritiikistä.

yle-fi.translate.goog

"The workers' union of the car and transport industry drifted into a crisis: The workers of the union rose up against the management"

 

[TSemi]

We may have discovered the fly in the ointment for Tesla Sweden.

Who in their right mind would enter into an agreement to abide by terms they are not allowed to see until after they have signed?

That does seem odd and strange? I'm no expert in U.S. labor law but it would seem in a collective bargaining agreement that BOTH sides have to agree to all the terms before signing on. I guess Swedish labor law is a bit different in that respect, again just guessing.

 

[MP3Mike]

We may have discovered the fly in the ointment for Tesla Sweden.

Who in their right mind would enter into an agreement to abide by terms they are not allowed to see until after they have signed?

We've gone down this road before, when that article was originally posted in this thread. Someone said that the agreements are public and provided a link:

Did some googling.

All the swedish collective agreements are here:

Swedish labour market model and collective agreements - Arbetsmiljöverket

Here is information on what the Swedish labour market model is, links to collective agreements in various industries and contact information to responsible employer- and employee-representative organisations.

www.av.se

scroll down, you will find IF Metals agreements with links to pdf in swedish. So its all public information.

And as I've said before:
A collective agreement is a written agreement on terms of employment between an employer-representative organisation or an employer and a union organisation.

It is not an agreement between Tesla and IF Metal. Tesla would have to join a emploeyr-representativr organizatuon and they negotiate these agreements.

swedish model doesn't differ much from finnish model.

 

[growler23]

owned by the world's richest man

Could the Swedish press quit with this repeated mis-statement of fact?

<rant mode='soapbox'>

Everyone here in this forum is likely a Tesla company (stock) owner. Elon does not own the company nor does he own a majority of shares. (He owns < 15% as I understand it.)
This is kind of important at this point. IF Metall and their supporters are not saying "Screw you, Elon", they are saying "Screw you, Growler."
I am not impressed with this sleight-of-hand to mis-state the fully publicly verifiable state of Tesla's public corporate ownership for the purpose of making people falsely think they are "sticking it to the world's richest man". They are sticking it to me.

Elon is the face, yes, he provides vision and execution as the CEO role is supposed to, yes ... but he is not the owner. I am the owner, dammit, and if you are reading this, you likely are too, as are hordes of regular people who are thrilled that a fully capitalist company is trying to do the right thing by the planet, for once, and actually being good at it.

</rant additionalInfo='apologies for stating the obvious'>

 

[TSemi]

We've gone down this road before, when that article was originally posted in this thread. Someone said that the agreements are public and provided a link:

I think you misunderstand something very important. The "agreements are public" refers to agreements already signed.

 

[MP3Mike]

The "agreements are public" refers to agreements already signed.

Right, but Tesla wouldn't ever sign an agreement with IF Metall. They sign on to one of the employer collectives that in turn have an agreement with IF Metall. So assuming there is more than one employer collective Tesla could review all of them, and their agreements with IF Metall, and choose the least awful one. I guess Tesla could create a new employer collective, and then have that collective negotiate an agreement with IF Metall. (Or just say no.)

At least that is my understanding of how things work in Sweden.

 

[samppa]

Right, but Tesla wouldn't ever sign an agreement with IF Metall. They sign on to one of the employer collectives that in turn have an agreement with IF Metall. So assuming there is more than one employer collective Tesla could review all of them, and their agreements with IF Metall, and choose the least awful one. I guess Tesla could create a new employer collective, and then have that collective negotiate an agreement with IF Metall. (Or just say no.)

At least that is my understanding of how things work in Sweden.

As I understand, not exactly. A company can either join an employers collective and take their agreement, or they can negotiate their own individual agreement with the union.


Veli-Pekka Säikkälä was interviewed by finnish tv news. He actually said that they are worried thar if Tesla will not sign a collective agreement, others might try to get out of theirs. So its all abiut power.

Interview in finnish

Ruotsin metalliliiton Säikkälä: Teslan työriidassa ovat vastakkain maailman rikkain mies ja maailman vahvin ay-liitto

Ruotsissa amerikkalaisen autonvalmistaja Teslan korjaamojen metalliliittoon kuuluvat asentajat ovat olleet lakossa nyt kuusi viikkoa, eikä työriidalle näy loppua.

yle.fi

 

[adiggs]

As I understand, not exactly. A company can either join an employers collective and take their agreement, or they can negotiate their own individual agreement with the union.


Veli-Pekka Säikkälä was interviewed by finnish tv news. He actually said that they are worried thar if Tesla will not sign a collective agreement, others might try to get out of theirs. So its all abiut power.

Interview in finnish

Ruotsin metalliliiton Säikkälä: Teslan työriidassa ovat vastakkain maailman rikkain mies ja maailman vahvin ay-liitto

Ruotsissa amerikkalaisen autonvalmistaja Teslan korjaamojen metalliliittoon kuuluvat asentajat ovat olleet lakossa nyt kuusi viikkoa, eikä työriidalle näy loppua.

yle.fi

That sounds like we've had that sentiment expressed in both countries now. Sure sounds like the concern isn't for people that work at Tesla - the concern is for people that work at the union headquarters.

I don't know anything about world union history. We did cover some of the history of unions in my US history classes though, and in the beginning, the union movement was essential for workers. Even up to and including actual life and death, but mostly more about working conditions that wouldn't be easy to equate with slavery; that could kind of include having a life (both time and money).

 

[heltok]

My guess of the outcome:
Tesla will not cave, neither will the union.
Tesla will lose the legal battle with postnord, but the loss will help them in the case against transportstyrelsen.
Tesla will win the legal battle with transportstyrelsen and be allowed to pick up their signs there.
The legal battle with transportstyrelsen will take a few months, in the meanwhile Tesla will deliver fewer cars in Sweden and buyers will have to get the license plates themselves.
Tesla will transport Model Y with trucks all the way from the Berlin factory to the dealers in Sweden.
Model 3 will get shipped from Zebrugge with trucks to dealers in Sweden.
Long term Tesla will make sure their supply chain in Europe is union-influence-limited and will in-house lots of things.

 

[SO16]

I have not seen the latest statements by UAW - but at one time they were opposed to EVs because they feared that will cut jobs.

But now with battery plant being included in the negotiations, they may have changed their position.

Bottomline is - UAW (or other unions) does not care whether the workers are producing ICE or EVs - as long as the workers aren't needed anymore. BTW, look at VW unions - they aren't thrilled about EVs. Traditionally, climate change has been the main dividing line between unions and liberals in the US - for eg. UAW has long opposed more stringent emission / mileage requirement for cars.

You mean like the battery plant that has now been put on hold?

Ford shrinks its EV battery factory plans in Michigan

Ford is still opening the Michigan EV battery plant in 2026.

www.theverge.com

GM delays EV production at Michigan plant to 2025

General Motors says it needs time to better manage capital investment related to EV demand and implement engineering improvements to increase profits.

www.automotivedive.com

Granted, GM is pausing building an EV plant, not battery.

 

[TSemi]

https://www.kristianstadsbladet.se/ledare/if-metalls-strejk-ar-omoralisk-och-maktfullkomlig/

Sofia Nerbrand: IF Metall's strike is immoral and full of power​

Voluntary agreements are much nicer and better than forcing yourself on your partner.

The Tesla Model Y is the year's best-selling car - worldwide. An electric car can therefore handle all petrol, diesel and hybrid cars. Despite the fact that the Model Y costs just over half a million kroner and up. Tesla is clearly doing something right in the eyes of consumers.
What about the employees at the company? Founder and CEO Elon Musk is not fond of unions and Tesla steers clear of collective bargaining agreements. It is not due to malice, or reluctance to compensate the employees for their efforts. On the contrary.

Musk elaborated on his view the other day in a long and interesting interview with the New York Times' Andrew Ross Sorkin. The company manager's point of departure is that he does not want to build in a contradiction between two groups: "I don't like something that creates something like nobility and peasants". Musk himself spends a lot of time on the workshop floor and sees those who assemble the cars as valuable people whom he needs to convince to do the tough work on good terms. Otherwise, the workers may very well take a job elsewhere. Everyone also gets options in the company and many have become millionaires.

Nota bene: Since IF Metall announced its strike against Tesla at the end of October, not many of Tesla's employees in Sweden have participated, because they are satisfied with their employer.

Elon Musk basically holds many libertarian views on most things. He is against censorship and canceling culture - and therefore bought Twitter, later X, to make it a global and free debate forum for everyone.

In the same spirit, Elon Musk is a strong supporter of market economy, which is based on voluntarily entered into agreements between two parties. Like, for example, that millions of people are apparently willing to buy a Model Y for a hefty sum of money. Capitalism is the most efficient and morally correct economic system in existence.

Musk won't give up. You won't be able to buy him for money. Not because he has so much of them, but because he primarily sees them as a means to develop more products and ultimately take humans to Mars. He now dismisses the big advertisers who take a break from appearing on X even though it weighs heavily on the company financially - he will not let go of the ambition for the platform to have a high ceiling as long as the posts do not violate laws on defamation, threats and incitement . Then he'd rather hang up.

It is very difficult to see that Elon Musk and Tesla allow themselves to be forced to sign a collective agreement in Sweden, even if the union strikes are a nuisance. And why would they budge? Tesla does not pay worse than the agreements stipulate and follows the regulations. The Swedish model is actually also based on freedom of contract – hundreds of thousands of companies have opted out of collective agreements.

Had Tesla been a proven bad employer who broke rules and agreements, IF Metall's industrial action against the company would have been justified. Now the strikes are just immoral and powerful.

 

[2daMoon]

Gee, why didn't we think of that ^^^^^^

 

[heltok]

Utnyttjar kryphål – för att få regskyltar till nya Teslan

Närmare 1 000 nya Teslabilar har registrerats i veckan – samtidigt som den amerikanska biljätten inte får tillgång till registreringsskyltarna. Men det finns kryphål. – Det finns flera sätt att få tag på skyltarna, säger en man som fick sin nya Tesla i veckan.

www.svt.se

Exploiting loopholes - to get registration plates for the new Tesla​

UPDATED TODAY 11:16PUBLISHED TODAY 09:19
Close to 1,000 new Tesla cars have been registered this week - while the American car giant does not get access to the license plates. But there are loopholes.
- There are several ways to get hold of the signs, says a man who received his new Tesla this week.

It was another setback for Tesla when the Solna District Court ruled on Thursday that the license plates cannot be retrieved before the case is decided.
The background is the sympathy measures with IF Metall's strike, which resulted in Postnord not delivering mail to the electric car manufacturer - and new Tesla cars are therefore without registration plates.
According to the Swedish Transport Agency, very few new Tesla cars were registered in the first period after the postal blockade began, a total of 19 cars between November 20 and 28.

Strong increase​

This week, however, there was a sharp increase. During Wednesday and Thursday, a total of 896 new cars were registered.
All but one were on Friday morning still registered with Tesla Sweden, according to the Swedish Transport Agency.
For one of the cars, however, a change of ownership took place to a private person on Wednesday. SVT has been in contact with the man who had the car delivered earlier this week - without registration plates.
- I understand the purpose of the fight about collective agreements. But it will be a problem for those who ordered cars before and now stand without plates, says the man, who wishes to remain anonymous.
But by exploiting a loophole, and ordering new license plates the day after the change of ownership, he will have the plates sent to him despite the postal blockade.
- We can only state that anyone who is a registered owner of a car can order a license plate from us. We do not dispute such an order. The signs are sent to the owner, says Mikael Andersson, press manager at the Swedish Transport Agency.
- But it is clear that it is not particularly common for new license plates to be ordered the day after the first ones have been registered for production, says Mikael Andersson.

 

[TSemi]

The German media has been hands-off lately when reporting about the Tesla/IF Metall conflict.

They may have reported something at the beginning when I wasn't checking at that time. I've scanned through a few publications lately like Der Spiegel, Die Welt, Handelsblatt and a handful of the largest daily German newspapers and found nothing about IF Metall/Tesla strike.

For instance, Handelsblatt - a German-language business newspaper - nothing recently but did report this:

Handelsblatt

UAW also wants to organize German car manufacturers in the USA​

The UAW wants to organize more workers in the USA. The auto union is also targeting international manufacturers – and Tesla.
November 30, 2023 - 1:41 a.m

So Handelsblatt reports about something union related across the Atlantic but not a word about their close Nordic neighbors concerning IF Metall and Tesla. Doesn't that seem just a bit odd?

Or this from daily newspaper Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung reporting on the Gewerkschaft Deutscher Lokomotivführer(GDL) train drivers strike which is a big deal because it affects millions of train commuters:​

GDL-Chef: Streiks im neuen Jahr werden „länger und intensiver“

Schlechte Nachrichten für alle Zugreisenden: GDL-Chef Claus Weselsky prognostiziert für das kommende Jahr unbefristete Streiks bei der Deutschen Bahn. Ob dies wirklich so kommt, entscheidet sich durch eine Urabstimmung.

www.haz.de

GDL boss: Strikes in the new year will be “longer and more intense”​

The German newspapers reported on the train drivers strike(again, this is a big deal) but nothing about IF Metall/Tesla strike which seems odd to me given the Giga Berlin plant with thousands of employees and the on-going construction which employs several hundred construction workers and IG Metall, Germany's largest union, public support for IF Metall and it's own struggle to organize at Giga Berlin and gain a collective bargain agreement.

I expected to see something written about Tesla/IF Metall giving some updates, SOMETHING!!

I mean really? This is getting almost into conspiratorial territory here.......