Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
Ya, I've narrowed it down to Belgium, Spain, Italy or Germany. Just need to compare the tax scheme of each country now.
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Ya, I've narrowed it down to Belgium, Spain, Italy or Germany. Just need to compare the tax scheme of each country now.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Of course, if they didn't hire a PR firm, the headlines would read "Elon goes it alone; another PR disaster predicted".
Well is it pretty obvious the Tesla PR people are totally overwhelmed. They need professional help. First thing Joele Frank needs to do is cancel Elon's Twitter account. But doubtful that will happen.
In the old days Dutch private wealth fled to Belgium, mainly to escape the fixed tax on capital/property.
Nowadays not so much; Dutch fixed capital tax is 0,6% to 1,6% net per annum. No capital gains tax!
Or have your investments in a corporation: no fixed capital tax, but 20% to 25% capital gains / corporate tax.
So much for European tax parity.
It's sort of funny how Tesla's image varies depending on what group of people you're talking with. On Youtube, for example, Tesla seems to have a great image, but if you browse Google News, it'll look like almost everyone hates Tesla.
Amusingly, I was just watching a review on Youtube for "Vehicle Virgins", which has a following of hardcore car nuts. The reviewer loved the car, while the hardcore car nuts were about equally split. In the middle of the comments section was this exchange:
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GarbisOnTheGoFyrir 2 klukkustundum
I would be very worried if someone would want to pick a Model 3 over an M3...
Svein HanssenFyrir 35 mínútum
Do you work for BMW?
GarbisOnTheGoFyrir 24 mínútum
Svein Hanssen i do actually yes but thats besides the point, i’m speaking on behalf of any true car enthusiast
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You should be worried, BMW.
Amusingly, I was just watching a review on Youtube for "Vehicle Virgins", which has a following of hardcore car nuts. The reviewer loved the car, while the hardcore car nuts were about equally split. In the middle of the comments section was this exchange:
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GarbisOnTheGoFyrir 2 klukkustundum
I would be very worried if someone would want to pick a Model 3 over an M3...
Svein HanssenFyrir 35 mínútum
Do you work for BMW?
GarbisOnTheGoFyrir 24 mínútum
Svein Hanssen i do actually yes but thats besides the point, i’m speaking on behalf of any true car enthusiast
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You should be worried, BMW.
Don't need to cancel it, just need to filter it. Elon posts to a PR/legal person, who either passes it directly through, discusses it with Elon or other people from Tesla before approving it, or rejects it - with the goal to be to let the vast majority through and only stop the "blunders".
TrendTrader007
Active Member
I agree with her estimates but at this point it seems the process of going private is almost irreversible
The fact that GS and MS are already involved and no longer rating $TSLA indicates that the deal will go through
PS Elon just responded to her letter on $TWTR so let’s see
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An excellent example of the No True Car Enthusiast Fallacy.
Logical Fallacies» ‘No True Scotsman’ Fallacy
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LOL... I think we both know the odds of any "filtering" of Elon's early morning posts are less than zero. At this point could he even do more damage? I think people are becoming immune to his weirdness. It is taken for granted as part of his "baggage". The SEC could change that but otherwise, it will be Musk, as usual, going forward.
TrendTrader007
Active Member
TrendTrader007
Active Member
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1m
Replying to @narutium
$TSLA shorts are in a state of prosapagnosia Once the deal is finalized they’ll be in a state of alexithymia
dgodfrey
Member
Of course it won't happen, nor should it. He's done probably thousands of tweets with maybe a handful of Mulligans with the vast majority resulting in positive feedback and a few holes in one. Definitely way under par for the course.
many with orchiotomies
Okay, I gave you a "funny" for that!
But seriously, with the stock at $320 and freely trading millions of shares a day, why would anyone put up $billions to take this private at $420 unless they were getting majority control as in a typical LBO? The battle between shorts and longs is what keeps Tesla in the news every day. How many articles do you read each day on Ford or GM? close to...none.
SpaceX has a COO. Tesla should have had one as soon as Musk began forming other companies. They lost a good candidate when Jon McNeill left.
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Boomer... "as he should be"? The SEC is all up in Tesla's you know what over his tweets. I agree the CEO should be the PR frontman, but not in Tesla's case. At least until they hire a COO, then put him/her on the front line of PR. I still believe the shareholders were wrong in not separating the CEO and Chairman roles. It would be interesting to do a recount and see how many would still vote the same way today.
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TrendTrader007
Active Member
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1m
Replying to @bohu651 @elonmusk and @CathieDWood
I agree $TSLA shorts are determined to destroy TSLA all means available. Going private deprives short sellers of a major opportunity in their efforts to undermine Tesla Elon’s credibility is at stake and reversing the process of going private will cause major loss of confidence
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
I don't understand her arguments:
First, as a private company, Tesla will be unable to capitalize on its competitive advantages as rapidly and dramatically as it would as a public company, an important consideration given the network effects and natural geographic monopolies to which autonomous taxi and truck networks will submit.
Is she saying that Tesla won't be able to do equity financing? I think equity financing and leveraged debt got Tesla into trouble to begin with, it's what attracted the shorts who seem to have a ... willing ally at Moody's.
Second, in the private market, Tesla would lose the free publicity associated with your role as the CEO of the public company not only with the bestselling mid-sized premium sedan in the US, but also arguably in the best position to launch a completely autonomous taxi network nationwide in the next few years.
What he wants to avoid is the volatility and short-termism of public markets, which is in large part enabled by being traded on an exchange where the rules are in favor of speculators and financial parasites.
For example why isn't it public information who the biggest Tesla shorts are? Is it UBS? If yes, shouldn't they be barred from attacking Tesla through covert means, due to the obvious conflict of interest? The identity of the largest investors is public - why not the identity of the largest anti-investors?
I think the final straw for Elon were the 9% layoffs in June. They were entirely unnecessary and were disruptive, the layoffs were only done to reach profitability faster.
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if you’re worried about elon, dont own/trade tsla. i’m not even opposed to a COO or whatever role it would be, but you’re talking about taking away the most powerful marketing tool. that’s two different things. yes he’s made some mistakes. he’s done plenty to be entitled to a misstep up once in a blue moon. and yes as shareholders we’re alllowed to get mad temporarily if we disagree with him, because we’re human too. but in the long game, betting or siding against him is outright ludicrous.
It seems completely overlooked that going public is what most companies hope to achieve the day they are formed. Access to public funds is the fuel that grows companies. Where would Tesla be today if they had remained private in 2008?
The layoffs were indeed a bad move since many more employees have had to be hired in other areas. By the end of Q3 we could see employment where it was before the layoffs. If they had done surgical and strategic replacements it would have been much more effective and avoided mandatory reporting under the Ward Act. A 9% layoff says "oops, we let hiring get out of control". Not a good message to send to the markets.
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