Lightning vs CyberTruck feature spreadsheet

I am keeping a spreadsheet comparing my Lightning Lariat to what we know about the Cybertruck. I purchased the Lightning fully intending to replace it with the CT once available but Ford did a damn good job on their first offering so I'm not so sure anymore. Hence the spreadsheet. I added weights based on what is important (to me) and scores based on my own judgement. Would love some feedback on any key features I am missing or any numbers I may have gotten wrong. I only tally the scores that have entries for both vehicles to keep it fair-ish. Also, I am certain there are already a few of these out there so any links to similar content would also be appreciated.

LIghtning vs Cybertruck

 

[uscbucsfan]

Lightning platinum is about 102k so you think about 130k for the top Cybertruck?

It's ridiculous to guess on prices. They could release a 200kwh battery truck and it cost 80k or 100k, but no one knows.

 

[Zer0t]

I'm not, but was asking for clarity from the poster I quoted on what their opinion was. It's also difficult to compare a product that isn't finished yet to something that's been available for over a year. But speculation is all part of the process.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I'm not, but was asking for clarity from the poster I quoted on what their opinion was. It's also difficult to compare a product that isn't finished yet to something that's been available for over a year. But speculation is all part of the process.

I've done it as well, but Tesla has intentionally not provided absolute specs, features, pricing, range, etc.

Some of this may not even all come out at the launch. It's how they operate.

 

[Zer0t]

I've done it as well, but Tesla has intentionally not provided absolute specs, features, pricing, range, etc.

Some of this may not even all come out at the launch. It's how they operate.

I don't disagree, everything in this section is at least somewhat speculative.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Lightning platinum is about 102k so you think about 130k for the top Cybertruck?

why would you compare the Platinum trim of the Lightning with the Cybertruck?

lol. Even the Lariat trim is quite a bit above Tesla trim whereas the Platinum trim is on par with a nice Mercedes / Lexus ...

I was comparing the ~320 miles rated F150 Lightning in the Lariat trim (low/mid $80s) to the Cybertruck.

Again - we don't know pricing but it would be *highly* unusual for Tesla to launch a 500 miles rated truck (even more range than the Model S) for substantially less than the X and on par with other EV trucks who don't get more than ~300 miles...

 

[T3SLAROD]

I've done it as well, but Tesla has intentionally not provided absolute specs, features, pricing, range, etc.

Some of this may not even all come out at the launch. It's how they operate.

Of course they’ve intentionally not released any real information….. those deposits would disappear and their investor would have a fit

 

[Zer0t]

why would you compare the Platinum trim of the Lightning with the Cybertruck?

lol. Even the Lariat trim is quite a bit above Tesla trim whereas the Platinum trim is on par with a nice Mercedes / Lexus ...

I was comparing the ~320 miles rated F150 Lightning in the Lariat trim (low/mid $80s) to the Cybertruck.

Again - we don't know pricing but it would be *highly* unusual for Tesla to launch a 500 miles rated truck (even more range than the Model S) for substantially less than the X and on par with other EV trucks who don't get more than ~300 miles...

I through you were comparing the top end to what was predicted to top end. The lariat is 85 after price increases for extended range and that's without the max tow which is worth getting even if you don't tow. They've also reduced the number of standard features in 2023 from the 2022 model year. With max tow and spray in bed liner it's 90k. I had the '22, 80,500 with for a loaded truck, and it was great but sold to get a Rivian R1T because it was a better fit what I wanted to do with the truck. My friend is still driving my former F150 and it's still great.

I agree this is all speculation.

 

[TjckTock]

Tesla does some jerkish things... The removing the ability to turn off regen is one of those things.

The other thing that I'm extremely unimpressed with is that they've removed the option to turn of automatic lane change w/ FSDb. (Which means it's going away in general...) It's certainly caused several close calls... and they really don't give a S@#T.

God forbid they allow us to configure the car in a manner we want...

This. Honestly this is the main reason I am getting less enchanted with Tesla. I have never owned an iPhone for the same reason and, let's face it, Tesla is the iPhone of cars. Trying to conform your customers to your product instead of your product to your customers is completely backwards, arrogant, and insulting.

 

[uscbucsfan]

This. Honestly this is the main reason I am getting less enchanted with Tesla. I have never owned an iPhone for the same reason and, let's face it, Tesla is the iPhone of cars. Trying to conform your customers to your product instead of your product to your customers is completely backwards, arrogant, and insulting.

How is that different than any other manufacturer?

There are plenty of things that aren't optioned. Ford doesn't have an option for more or less regen.

Tesla changed it to stay truer to EPA range and to boost advertised range.

The FSD Beta one is silly, you still have the option to not use FSD Beta and make lane changes on confirmation only, but that's a large component to self driving.

 

[TjckTock]

How is that different than any other manufacturer?

There are plenty of things that aren't optioned. Ford doesn't have an option for more or less regen.

Tesla changed it to stay truer to EPA range and to boost advertised range.

The FSD Beta one is silly, you still have the option to not use FSD Beta and make lane changes on confirmation only, but that's a large component to self driving.

I don't know. "Everyone else is doing it" never worked for me growing up. Still doesn't. If it is something I can't do without I will find the ones that do it the least. I think there is an opportunity for someone to come from behind and steal market share. Just provide tons of user configurability. Make the info center open arch or at the very least provide stable APIs for after-market apps. This is how the PC [almost] destroyed Apple. Obv. things like FSDb and the vehicle computer must remain secure so that won't solve the missing lane change confirmation problem but I think that level of customization will attract a LOT of people.

 

[Mrbrock]

Just one more point. The reduced range towing is not a big deal for some (many?). It becomes an issue pulling that toy hauler to a remote vacation spot, but I do most towing in town (<150miles round trip). My Lightning doesn't quite make it for some of my trips (10,500lb high school band trailer to the more distant competitions) but it is close. If CT gets close to its promised range, it will be perfect for me.

I think it is safe to say the 500 mile range was based on the 4680 hitting max engineering targets. We saw the Plaid+ not come to market at 500 mile range so why would you expect this to be any different? The simple fact that they pulled all the specs off the website and clearly stated they would change along with pricing means people will be hugely disappointed if they believe the hype machine (just like 4680 hype). If they were going to stay the same or get better, why remove them?

Elon has backed off the max range team and switched to only the range needed for the job. You state that 150 miles is the max average everyday driver needed range for towing which means 300 mile actual range which you might get from 425 mile Tesla EPA range (500 * 85% 4680 derate).

Take $50,000 for LR Model Y, double the battery, add in the more expensive body and two more motors and rear wheel steering and all the engineering that goes with that and you are easily twice the retail cost. I think you are looking at $65,000 for a 250 mile EPA rated dual motor base model (that means 150 real world non towing range, ask all the SR+ M3 drivers their range in a much more aerodynamic and lighter vehicle).

 

[GBMaryland]

The FSD Beta one is silly, you still have the option to not use FSD Beta and make lane changes on confirmation only, but that's a large component to self driving.

Yeah, no. What it means is that they are going to remove the ability for you to decide if you want your car to automatically change lanes, and how many car lengths you want to be behind the car in front of you.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Yeah, no. What it means is that they are going to remove the ability for you to decide if you want your car to automatically change lanes, and how many car lengths you want to be behind the car in front of you.

No.

There's both options available with fsd with minimal lane change and your profile. Turning off lane change is as easy turning off fsd beta.

On Beta stack you've never been able to completely disable lane changes, intentionally.

 

[TjckTock]

No.

There's both options available with fsd with minimal lane change and your profile. Turning off lane change is as easy turning off fsd beta.

On Beta stack you've never been able to completely disable lane changes, intentionally.

From what I can tell Minimal Lane Changes does nothing - it still, at east five time each commute, tries to move into the left lane coming up on a right turn or the right lane coming up on a left turn as well as random bouncing back and forth with no upcoming turns. Nothing minimal about that. Yes, you can choose to not use FSDb but they crippled Steering Assist with the +5 limit so all you are left with is TACC. It is very frustrating to those of use who paid extra for FSD to see these features we paid for being deliberately crippled to the point that we have nothing usable. It's not because they can't (lane change confirmation for FSDb; +10 limit on steering assist), but they won't.

 

[uscbucsfan]

From what I can tell Minimal Lane Changes does nothing - it still, at east five time each commute, tries to move into the left lane coming up on a right turn or the right lane coming up on a left turn as well as random bouncing back and forth with no upcoming turns. Nothing minimal about that. Yes, you can choose to not use FSDb but they crippled Steering Assist with the +5 limit so all you are left with is TACC. It is very frustrating to those of use who paid extra for FSD to see these features we paid for being deliberately crippled to the point that we have nothing usable. It's not because they can't (lane change confirmation for FSDb; +10 limit on steering assist), but they won't.

Minimal lane change absolutely works, especially on the interstate.There are many post about it, but there's still speed based lane changes if you drive in assertive and are going way over the speed limit.

There's even videos with chill and only 5 over where it makes 0 lanes changes.

They've still provided control with options, but never has never allowed "no lane changes" and I doubt they ever will. That's not part of what Beta is attempting.

 

[TjckTock]

Minimal lane change absolutely works, especially on the interstate.There are many post about it, but there's still speed based lane changes if you drive in assertive and are going way over the speed limit.

There's even videos with chill and only 5 over where it makes 0 lanes changes.

They've still provided control with options, but never has never allowed "no lane changes" and I doubt they ever will. That's not part of what Beta is attempting.

Working in a couple controlled scenarios is not the same as working. It does not work on the roads I drive. It's fine if they want to test a random lane change beta but they need to at least give us something we can use. Right now they have nothing and as such are far behind everyone else on usable drivers assist features.

 

[gtae07]

True and I get your point, but a need is different than a want. Not everyone has just 2 kids and the want for a larger vehicle isn't always determined by the amount of kids you have. There is a reason why the sedan class of cars fell off the roof, while CUVs and SUVs overtook in demand over the years.

IMVHO the biggest reason CUVs took the market over sedans is the seating height. Just sitting higher with a better view (so you can see over other vehicles' hoods), and the easier entry/exit, makes a big difference. I tend to think of CUVs more as enlarged hatchbacks, which I always preferred over sedans with trunks since they're so much more flexible. After several years driving van/crossover/truck, I picked up my sister's old Focus for a bit and getting in/out of it means dropping down in, or hauling myself out, because my butt's so close to the ground in that thing. I'm not even that old, but with chronically bad joints and a propensity to injure myself during sports/exercise it's certainly not comfortable. There's also the space issue--at 6ft even, I'm the runt of my siblings and trying to pack everyone into a sedan to go around town was not a fun exercise when we were kids. Do any significant driving and having a little more space and more upright seating is a real blessing.

We've had a minivan for several years despite having only one kid; it was what was available at the time (mid 2019) when we needed a car now. It's had a hard life but I love the space and versatility; when visiting family we could put everyone in and go out to dinner in one car, we could load up for trips, we could cram all kinds of stuff in there, and when our son is in a bad mood we could make him sit in the back row where he could cause less trouble. We'll hang onto it for another year or so and hopefully I can swing my wife's opinion away from a Prius to something that's not a cramped, gutless shoebox. Maybe she'll warm to the MY I have coming next month and she'll be open to another EV...

 

[uscbucsfan]

Working in a couple controlled scenarios is not the same as working. It does not work on the roads I drive. It's fine if they want to test a random lane change beta but they need to at least give us something we can use. Right now they have nothing and as such are far behind everyone else on usable drivers assist features.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't know any company that can rival Tesla with drivers assist features. No one else is doing anything similar to FSD Beta on a consumer level. Who are these companies?

It's not random lane changes for the sake of lane changes. The car is programmed to stay out of merge lanes (far right) and make speed based lane changes. This is easily verifiable. Go the speed limit and they drop dramatically.

"A couple of controlled scenarios"...ie all interstates? Minimal lane change absolutely works and there's plenty of evidence backing it beyond my anecdotal 2 cars in the program.

 

[TjckTock]

I couldn't disagree more. I don't know any company that can rival Tesla with drivers assist features. No one else is doing anything similar to FSD Beta on a consumer level. Who are these companies?

It's not random lane changes for the sake of lane changes. The car is programmed to stay out of merge lanes (far right) and make speed based lane changes. This is easily verifiable. Go the speed limit and they drop dramatically.

"A couple of controlled scenarios"...ie all interstates? Minimal lane change absolutely works and there's plenty of evidence backing it beyond my anecdotal 2 cars in the program.

My F150 Lightning works flawlessly. This is what opened my eyes up to how far behind Tesla was. Sure FSDb will beat them once it works but until then they have nothing that competes.

 

[TjckTock]

The thing that galls me the most is that Tesla could very easily deliver something as good or better than Ford Blue Cruise. Just enable lane change confirmation and it would be a tie (plus for FSDb, minus for lack of hands free). Enable hands-free (not sure how easy that one is), and they would come out on top. They have the technology, they just refuse to offer an interim solution so they lose.