Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[Tiger]

So if you turn on your high beams and shut off the car for the night, the car will turn on high beam headlights in the morning when you start it? All of our Teslas always started up with Auto-headlights/auto-high-beams (and DRL's on). Why would they do that? I'm sure high beams use more power too.

Might be different in an S, didn't do this automatically in a 3 but stayed on. Not sure about X recent.

I don't lcok the car during nights though, which might affect Tesla's understanding of whether high beams are needed or not.

 

[ALSETJC]

Not sure if this has been suggested. Why couldn't they put signals as buttons attached to the back of the steering wheel (left button left signal, right side right signal) where many have volume/paddles (still save money on parts as its on the steering wheel). Then move the gear selection to buttons on the front of the steering wheel where the turn signals are. Problem solved! Very little extra cost.

 

[zoomer0056]

Not sure if this has been suggested. Why couldn't they put signals as buttons attached to the back of the steering wheel (left button left signal, right side right signal) where many have volume/paddles (still save money on parts as its on the steering wheel). Then move the gear selection to buttons on the front of the steering wheel where the turn signals are. Problem solved! Very little extra cost.

Interesting idea. This would also support the minimalist look of the car.

 

[Zythryn]

Not sure if this has been suggested. Why couldn't they put signals as buttons attached to the back of the steering wheel (left button left signal, right side right signal) where many have volume/paddles (still save money on parts as its on the steering wheel). Then move the gear selection to buttons on the front of the steering wheel where the turn signals are. Problem solved! Very little extra cost.

I really would like to see the left turn signal on the left, and the right turn signal on the right of the steering wheel.
That said, I prefer the stalkless design. Important note, this is the Highland design, NOT the S or X.

I would be one of the people for whom a car with stalks would be a point against it when buying.

The shifting, for me, is fine. I don’t want to add more buttons to the steering wheel. However, it would be cool as an option.

 

[Dear_OP]

I didn't mind the turn signals on the steering wheel. Got used to it pretty quickly. Admittedly, it will be a challenge in small roundabouts.

The area that I find it clunky with selecting PRND is with the screen. Feels slower in say 3-point turn maneuvers. My brain is not set up to pointing the edge of the screen yet.

 

[zoomer0056]

I didn't mind the turn signals on the steering wheel. Got used to it pretty quickly. Admittedly, it will be a challenge in small roundabouts.

The area that I find it clunky with selecting PRND with the screen. Feels slower in say a 3-point turn maneuvers. My brain is not set up to pointing the edge of the screen yet.

I get that, but how fast does this need to be done. Another question, what's the difference measured in seconds?

 

[Videomatic3]

I get that, but how fast does this need to be done. Another question, what's the difference measured in seconds?

Needs to be done quickly, most people don't have the patience in parking lots, u turns etc
Gonna get honked at
I dont even think a j turn isn't easily done anymore

 

[Dear_OP]

There are some positives with this new setup. I particularly like the Camera button. I don't have to use the centre screen for it.
Wiper button was intuitive for me.

I haven't tried the Autopilot button and the one with the 4 arrows.

 

[HJS60]

I HATE the stalkless wheel. It is distracting when driving and makes no sense from a safety perspective. This is my 3rd MS and if I realised ( my bad) the stalks were eliminated I would have not bought. I've been driving for over 60 years and my muscle memory still takes me to where the stalks s/b. One more driver distraction adding to safety concerns. If there were an upgrade to convert back to stalks, I’d buy it.

 

[Knightshade]

I HATE the stalkless wheel. It is distracting when driving and makes no sense from a safety perspective. This is my 3rd MS and if I realised ( my bad) the stalks were eliminated I would have not bought. I've been driving for over 60 years and my muscle memory still takes me to where the stalks s/b. One more driver distraction adding to safety concerns. If there were an upgrade to convert back to stalks, I’d buy it.

The S3XY button guys have a kit they're supposedly going to release, haven't seen a super recent update though

 

[WARP 10]

I HATE the stalkless wheel. It is distracting when driving and makes no sense from a safety perspective. This is my 3rd MS and if I realised ( my bad) the stalks were eliminated I would have not bought. I've been driving for over 60 years and my muscle memory still takes me to where the stalks s/b. One more driver distraction adding to safety concerns. If there were an upgrade to convert back to stalks, I’d buy it.

This just came out. I believe it's still being tested, but early reviews are mostly positive.

Model X/S OEM Style Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Model X/S Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

teslaunch.net

 

[EAV1]

Unpopular opinion here. I just received my Highland and I absolutely love the new setup. First thing I did with the car was find the closest roundabout and did a few laps. No problem at all using the turn signal when the wheel is turned or upside down. In roundabouts it’s always the same direction that you have to blink, so no confusion possible. On my drive home I even used the turn signals way more often than I normally would have since it was so easy with the buttons right under my thumb

 

[ks1972]

Unpopular opinion here. I just received my Highland and I absolutely love the new setup. First thing I did with the car was find the closest roundabout and did a few laps. No problem at all using the turn signal when the wheel is turned or upside down. In roundabouts it’s always the same direction that you have to blink, so no confusion possible. On my drive home I even used the turn signals way more often than I normally would have since it was so easy with the buttons right under my thumb

When you spend thousands on a new car, most probably you knew what you were buying and should like it. Good for you. A lot of people don’t want it.

 

[zoomer0056]

When you spend thousands on a new car, most probably you knew what you were buying and should like it. Good for you. A lot of people don’t want it.

Then there's plenty of people that bought knowing they wouldn't like it and kept on complaining. And still others that spent such money without knowing what they're getting and then started complaining. And even others that will never buy and complain anyway.

Forums are complainer inclusive.

 

[ks1972]

Then there's plenty of people that bought knowing they wouldn't like it and kept on complaining. And still others that spent such money without knowing what they're getting and then started complaining. And even others that will never buy and complain anyway.

Forums are complainer inclusive.

There’s also a lot of confirmation bias. With Tesla’s changed return policy of only 100 miles (it used to be 7 days), most people just compromise to live with it, get “used” to it. Complaining is kind of universal, people like to complain about everything these days

 

[uscbucsfan]

There’s also a lot of confirmation bias. With Tesla’s changed return policy of only 100 miles (it used to be 7 days), most people just compromise to live with it, get “used” to it. Complaining is kind of universal, people like to complain about everything these days

Tesla does not have a return policy at all anymore.

The 100 miles is supposed to be to report delivery issues, but they won't let you just return the car.

 

[ks1972]

Tesla does not have a return policy at all anymore.

The 100 miles is supposed to be to report delivery issues, but they won't let you just return the car.

That’s even worse for buyers.

 

[whitex]

Tesla does not have a return policy at all anymore.

The 100 miles is supposed to be to report delivery issues, but they won't let you just return the car.

I wonder why they got rid of the 7 day return. They should have added a "restoking fee" 2x-3x greater than what it would cost to rent a similar new Tesla for the 7 days, then pretty much the only reasons to return a car within 7 days are bad quality or you hate the design/features. Maybe the stalkless yoke would have costed them too many returns.

 

[Videomatic3]

I wonder why they got rid of the 7 day return. They should have added a "restoking fee" 2x-3x greater than what it would cost to rent a similar new Tesla for the 7 days, then pretty much the only reasons to return a car within 7 days are bad quality or you hate the design/features. Maybe the stalkless yoke would have costed them too many returns.

It definitely shows they lost confidence in their product

 

[stopcrazypp]

I wonder why they got rid of the 7 day return. They should have added a "restoking fee" 2x-3x greater than what it would cost to rent a similar new Tesla for the 7 days, then pretty much the only reasons to return a car within 7 days are bad quality or you hate the design/features. Maybe the stalkless yoke would have costed them too many returns.

It's simply not sustainable once they sold a certain volume of cars, especially with people abusing it (as people would with any return policy). There is a reason why no automaker has such a policy either (even if they have high satisfaction ratings).

Fact of the matter is the returned car becomes a used car, and the value plummets (generally 10% or more right off the lot), and Tesla isn't in the business of selling used cars (even though the begrudgingly take them for trade-ins, usually with lowball offers, and farming out if it's not a Tesla). It's different than demo cars which are still "new".

For people that just want to try out the car first, they have test drives, as well as extended overnight test drives.
https://www.tesla.com/drive
People can also easily rent one on Hertz or Turo.