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Did Tesla really lay off their entire Supercharger staff
- Thread starter RedOctober
- Start date
Yeah, not canceled. Probably more like lets wait till 2030 and then re-evaluate the market kind of "not canceled". May as well call it canceled. Same as the promised roaster. Shouldn't believe a word they say until you actually see it on sale.
My concern is how this might affect NACS adoption. Other manufacturers agreed to use NACS in the US because of its dominance... but it hasn't even happened yet.
Might they pull back and decide to switch back to CCS? That would *really* suck.
Might they pull back and decide to switch back to CCS? That would *really* suck.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Why would they pull back? Adopting NACS was a condition for getting supercharger access. Even if the supercharger network is frozen to what it is today, it's still a major advantage to gain access to it.
E90alex
Active Member
If the network is frozen then the other automakers won’t have access. They have not finalized the software part with Tesla in order to have access yet. Only Ford and Rivian have it working right now.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about amount of stations/stalls, not talking about stuff like software access.
E90alex
Active Member
How is the physical network going to be a major advantage to other automakers if they can’t access it without the right software?
Agreed. As a new Tesla owner, I find the supercharger system really useful and simple to use. It gives me warm fuzzies about the company, to counter all the mediocre to awful stuff.
I'm struck by the fact that the MY seems fine in fit and finish, and feels solid, and functions well in an ordinary car sense. So, in my view, Tesla has managed to get its act together as a car company.
All the rest, however, is far too much like a 6th grade science fair project. The auto wipers don't work and the ergonomics of selecting a speed from a touch screen is idiotic.
FSD(Not) does not work safely, and reviewers who have used it and Ford's Blue Cruise find the latter much better. TACC, which other car companies have figured out, is not reliable, braking for no apparent reason, and often driving like a teenager.
Mercedes has the first Level 3 car on the market, so Tesla is behind in developing functioning software. Waymo is years ahead of Tesla in the robo taxi market.
So wouldn't it make sense to focus on the things that Tesla does well: building solid useful electric cars and the infrastructure that supports them?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Again, I'm not talking about the software team freezing, I'm not considering that as a possibility nor did I ever suggest that as a possibility. The rumor doesn't suggest that is what is happening. I'm talking about how even if the physical network itself stays the same (same amount of stations and stalls), it will still be a useful network to the other automakers. Elon's tweet suggests the largest cut were to the ones installing the new stations, but they are still maintaining the network and updating existing stations (just slowing down the pace of new stations). Hopefully the point is clear?
Although I wholeheartedly believe that NACS is the better connector, I also believe that the other manufacturers only switched to NACS because Tesla's Supercharger network is much larger and better maintained than any other.
Elon canning the entire supercharger team and then announcing that they're going to slow down on growing the network does *NOT* bode well for manufacturers switching to NACS. Not that Tesla needs to be the only one.
I'd like to think that this is somehow a good decision for the company, even though it seems callous and cruel to treat people like meatbots that you can just throw away when you no longer need them.
Perhaps none of us really know enough about the financials of the charging network. Perhaps it actually operates at a loss or very small margins. Possibly Tesla doesn't actually *WANT* to own any more chargers, they just wanted enough to make EVs viable and sway the US towards NACS... and perhaps they've achieved their goal and will now just slow down and let others fill in the gaps.
@stopcrazypp - I guess I was just thinking that... nothing is stopping other US manufacturers from backing out of their NACS conversion and sticking with CCS.
The strength of Supercharger network was the reason they decided to switch to NACS, and it sure seems like Elon just sent an announcement saying "Supercharger network is no longer a priority for us... someone else take the lead."
The strength of Supercharger network was the reason they decided to switch to NACS, and it sure seems like Elon just sent an announcement saying "Supercharger network is no longer a priority for us... someone else take the lead."
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Again, it doesn't seem like they canned the entire team. If that was the case, superchargers would very quickly start failing (as there would be no personnel to maintain them). Us Tesla owners have taken it for granted the high uptime, but looking at accounts of how other charge networks operate, there is a maintenance team doing rapid repairs/replacements that makes that possible. My point there is even if the network stays with the same number of stations and stalls today, it's still a big advantage to gain access to it. Personally I would not consider another EV that doesn't have access to superchargers. Switching to NACS is a small cost to pay for that.
Almost all charge networks are huge money losers once you consider the installation costs. I highly doubt the supercharger network is an exception, especially given superchargers tend to have high availability (which is a negative for profitability, you instead would prefer they are almost always fully occupied even though user experience is worse).I'd like to think that this is somehow a good decision for the company, even though it seems callous and cruel to treat people like meatbots that you can just throw away when you no longer need them.
Perhaps none of us really know enough about the financials of the charging network. Perhaps it actually operates at a loss or very small margins. Possibly Tesla doesn't actually *WANT* to own any more chargers, they just wanted enough to make EVs viable and sway the US towards NACS... and perhaps they've achieved their goal and will now just slow down and let others fill in the gaps.
The cynic in me sees that once other automakers gain access to the supercharge network, it no longer remains as a major unique selling point for Tesla, so it makes less sense to aggressively expand the network at the same pace. Previously those costs can be counted as a form of advertisement, but once other automakers have access, it's dubious that it can be counted in the same way. Tesla also doesn't seem very interested in making major moves to depend on NEVI funding, perhaps because the approvals may not necessarily match with what Tesla would do themselves.
E90alex
Active Member
The hardware does not work without the software? I’m not taking about the software team that works on teslas own software.
The supercharger team was responsible for working with the other automakers to get their cars and back end software compatible with the Supercharger network. How does that happen for the remaining automakers that don’t have access yet now that the supercharger team is gone?
Ya think?!!!
Didn't the big E say Tesla wasn't a car company it was a tech company?
As to economics of fast DC chargers, I know they cost a lot to install but they charge more than plenty of margin on the power they sell.
Seems like you should make bank when you sell power for 5 or 6 times what you pay for it even if the upfront investment is up there. Pretty sure they won't be paying rent on the carpark spaces.
Ongoing maintenance may be killing it otherwise?
i don't know about that ... lots of superchargers are just not that full all the time. For me, superchargers are only for road trips. I imagine that's the case for a lot of people. Gas stations famously don't really make money off the gas ... they make it off the attached stores.
One of those trying to reach Tesla’s team Tuesday was Andres Pinter, the co-CEO of Bullet EV Charging Solutions, a company that provides electricians and other workers to build charging stations. Tesla Supercharger stations account for a quarter of its work.
The company’s chief operating officer, Mark Vogel, “was driving to a job in Dallas this morning when he received a call from our Tesla construction lead saying that his entire team was laid off,” Pinter wrote in a Tuesday email. “I have gotten email bounces from at least 20 Tesla contacts.”
“It’s unclear to me who, if anyone, is still at Tesla who has anything to do with charging,” he added in a phone interview.
The company’s chief operating officer, Mark Vogel, “was driving to a job in Dallas this morning when he received a call from our Tesla construction lead saying that his entire team was laid off,” Pinter wrote in a Tuesday email. “I have gotten email bounces from at least 20 Tesla contacts.”
“It’s unclear to me who, if anyone, is still at Tesla who has anything to do with charging,” he added in a phone interview.
E90alex
Active Member
Sure it’s their responsibility to create their own solution but they still need someone on the Tesla side to give them information on what their software needs to do and how it needs to communicate with Tesla on the back end for plug and charge, as well as to test and validate the software before it goes live.
Tesla is still the final gatekeeper to green light supercharger access for each brand. And without the supercharger team they have no liaison within Tesla to handle all that.
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