It’s not that we are ignorant of it; we just don’t care about your opinion.
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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
It’s not that we are ignorant of it; we just don’t care about your opinion.
You have really shot down your own argument here.
Tesla does business like everyone else does in China? In that case, why don't they do business like everyone else in Sweden? Is it because Musk believes that he can get away with it in Sweden, while he would get clobbered in China? He has even gone out of his way to cosy up to China's internet censor, something no other car company has done to my knowledge. Is that the typical case of a bully caving in when being confronted with an even bigger, more powerful bully?
By asking unions to go after telemarketing companies you are obviously making a case for more unionisation.
Finally, to my knowledge German companies that are doing business in the US are doing business as it is done in the US, something Tesla refuses to do in Sweden by refusing to conform to Swedish standards..
Fler Teslabilar registrerades – Facket ber grannländerna om hjälp
Under november registrerades Tesla dubbelt så många bilar i Sverige som i oktober, trots blockad. Nu ber Transportarbetareförbundet om hjälp i grannländer.
www.dn.se
During November, twice as many Tesla cars were registered in Sweden as during October. They are taken to ports in Denmark and Norway and then go overland into Sweden, according to the chairman of the Transport Workers' Union, who is now asking the neighboring countries for help.
- We hope that there is a stop to unloading Tesla cars that are going to Sweden throughout the Nordics within a couple of weeks, says Tommy Wreeth.
1,512 Tesla cars were registered in Sweden during the month of November, according to industry organization Mobility Sweden's latest figures on new registrations. This means that slightly more than twice as many Tesla cars have been put into traffic in Sweden during November compared to October.
The union IF Metall's strike has been going on since October 27, and since November 7 the Port Workers' Union and the Transport Workers' Union have had blockades in Swedish ports. From the beginning it applied in four Swedish ports, but since 17 November it applies in all.
- I don't know how they bring in the cars, whether it's by truck or what they do, but it's nothing that rolls past our members in any case, says the chairman of the Harbor Workers' Association, Martin Berg.
The blockade means that none of the union members will handle any Tesla cars in the ports. Theoretically, this means that a Tesla car arriving at the port by boat should not be unloaded by the port workers, but in practice no cars come to the ports at all according to Martin Berg.
- I know that in Malmö they had a large barge of Tesla cars and they stopped everything the weekend before the blockade. There was one that was left behind for some reason and from what I've heard from the guys down there, it's still there. Nobody touches that car, he says.
1,512 newly registered Tesla cars is an increase compared to October, when roughly 700 cars were registered. But in a larger perspective, the figure is neither aberrantly high nor low. The registrations have varied during the year, from just over 200 a month to more than 3,000 in September.
Tommy Wreeth is union chairman of the Transport Workers' Union.
What does this say about the power of your blockade?
- It works. It has stopped coming via Swedish ports, but that is not the same as Tesla cars not coming into Sweden. We have fairly good cooperation in the Nordic transport workers' federation and we know that Sweden-dedicated cars are unloaded in Esbjerg in Denmark, among other places, he says.
Tommy Wreeth says there are more steps the Transport Workers Union can take to increase pressure on Tesla.
The cars are then brought into Sweden via the Öresund Bridge or the land route from Norway. The Transport Workers' Union also organizes truck drivers, but through them you cannot access Tesla's transport.
- It is not Swedish car transport that goes over the bridge, it is creti and pleti. It's not our members, says Tommy Wreeth.
However, the union has now asked for sympathy from the Nordic port associations, and hopes that they will introduce similar blockades against Tesla.
- It is AKT in Finland, Fellesforbundet in Norway and 3F in Denmark. I won't say that we have received an answer yet, but of course we have spoken to them before, and we hope that there is a stop to unloading Tesla cars to Sweden in the whole Nordic region within a couple of weeks.
What kind of tools do you have to switch up with?
- There are other things to do. For example, we have the cleaning, we have the transports, the terminals, air freight, we have the security at the places that are members with us. We are constantly looking at what we can do but nothing is decided and ready, says Tommy Wreeth.
What is closest to hand as the next measure, he does not want to answer.
- Tesla will notice that when it happens. If it doesn't start to loosen up soon and gets closer to an agreement for IF Metall, we are prepared to ramp up. We are looking at what is most likely to affect Tesla and not third parties, says Tommy Wreeth.
The cars that have been registered in November may be a mix of those that were brought into Sweden by land during the blockade and cars that entered the ports before the blockade, believes Veli-Pekka Säikkälä, contract secretary at IF Metall.
- It is usually the case that each boat carries somewhere between 800 and 1,200 cars. Much of this has probably arrived in October, he says.
What difference does it make if neighboring countries' ports connect to the blockade?
- Then you won't be able to load in those ports either. Then you probably have to drive the cars from Germany, so it's clear it will make a difference.
He does not have much to say about the negotiations with Tesla. IF Metall has had meetings with the state mediator, but this has not brought the parties closer together.
- We simply have to let these measures work and see what happens, says Veli-Pekka
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The "sympathy blockade of neighbouring countries" was planned already a month ago. Since nothing has happened yet, I don't see it coming.. there's really no reason for other countries to be interested in this.
In the long run IF is just hurting themselves. They are showing all companies a perfect example why you shouldn't have union workers, and never do business with union companies.
In the long run IF is just hurting themselves. They are showing all companies a perfect example why you shouldn't have union workers, and never do business with union companies.
There is no legal requirement to comply and to sign a collective agreement in sweden.
Lots of companies do not belong to a union.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
The corporations operating in Sweden without a Collective agreement can be subject to a strike/sympathy strikes. If you negotiate and enter into a Collective agreement the unions promise to not go on strike. And that is a promise that the unions will honor no matter what. Sweden has very few 'strike days' compared to other countries. And this current conflict with Tesla is very, very, very unique. Something similar hasn't happened in Sweden for some ~100 years...
Tell that to the aluminum extrusion company. Sympathy strikes hurt businesses that agree to the collective agreement.
The American question/issue with unions is that they do not encourage doing more than the minimum, and that is a recipe for stasis at best. How do Swedish unions overcome this, as their tactics suggest that mediocrity and employees being beholden to the union rather than the employer is paramount.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
It looks like they are in the process of relearning why they haven't done this for ~100 years.
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There was something similar 2014 in the building industry where foreign workers and subcontractors without collective agreement were forced out, with strike threats.
Tesla only goes where they are welcome. If the Swedish government does not want Tesla to provide cars to the Swedish people, they can pass laws to prevent it.
Bigger problem is when Unions collude (would be illegal under US Anti Racketeering laws) to coerce a public company into forced Union representation.
If the workers themselves wish to be represented by a Union, they have the right to request that, but using other unionized companies to gang up on a single company is simply over the line. This type of collustion would be illegal in many developed Countries.
If I was Tesla, I would probably withdraw from such a Country. Let them buy their EVs from the Chinese.
Bigger problem is when Unions collude (would be illegal under US Anti Racketeering laws) to coerce a public company into forced Union representation.
If the workers themselves wish to be represented by a Union, they have the right to request that, but using other unionized companies to gang up on a single company is simply over the line. This type of collustion would be illegal in many developed Countries.
If I was Tesla, I would probably withdraw from such a Country. Let them buy their EVs from the Chinese.
The tactics are straight from the Godfather movies.
"Oh how clean workshop you have. Wouldn't it be a shame if the cleaning lady doesn't come tomorrow? Just pay a modest protection fee and we make sure there are no issues.. "
"Oh how clean workshop you have. Wouldn't it be a shame if the cleaning lady doesn't come tomorrow? Just pay a modest protection fee and we make sure there are no issues.. "
Are you serious? You never have unions go on strike with companies with collective agreements?
Like now when inflation in europe was historically high and unions wanted wages to be raised by as much, they never went on strike?
You gotta be kidding me
navguy12
Active Member
My Wild A** Guess at where an answer might/might be found:
How efficient (whatever metric a subject matter expert can suggest, including but not limited to FOB price per unit) is a typical Swedish company making goods (or services) compared to like products in another economic jurisdiction?
This whole exercise is distressing to me because the company being targeted actually reduces green house gases today, not in some future period five to ten years from now where the efforts will have to be much more dramatic to have the same results.
The problem with modern US unions is that the less competent and thus lesser paid workers benefit from unions while the better compensated ones would be hurt. In the past, work was simpler and the workers typically had a similar level of productivity, so unions were helpful to all. There was a time and a place for unions.
I think European unions work differently though. I think they set minimum compensation rather than fix compensation based on seniority and job level - which if true makes it strange that workers don't want to unionize. Can someone more familiar with European unions shed a light?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
A Collective agreement in Sweden doesn't run forever. It is time limited. So as I understand it the current Collective agreement that Metall has signed with companies in Sweden runs until the end of 2024. I think that Collective agreement was agreed upon in the beginning of this year. Both parties settled on wage increases that would not risk some kind of runaway inflation. And that also involved all the other unions in Sweden. Remember... 90% of the total work force in Sweden is covered by Collective Agreements. In the public sector (hospitals, schools, municipalities, communes, etc) the coverage is 100%.
Again: Look it up. Sweden has very few strike days compared to other European countries. I'm 99% certain that Sweden has less strike days than Finland for example.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
I think you're thinking of something that happened in 2004.
"A Latvian company, Laval un Partneri Ltd won a contract from the Swedish government to renovate schools. Laval Ltd posted Latvian workers to Sweden to work on site. These workers earned much less than comparable Swedish workers. The Swedish Building Workers' Union (Svenska Byggnadsarbetareförbundet) asked Laval Ltd to sign its collective agreement. This collective agreement would have been more favourable than the terms required to protect posted workers under the Posted Workers Directive, and also contained a clause for setting pay that would not allow Laval Ltd to determine in advance what the pay would be. Laval Ltd refused to sign the collective agreement. The Swedish Builders Union, supported by the Electricians Union called a strike to blockade Laval Ltd's building sites. As a result, Laval Ltd could not do business in Sweden."
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
The union will not direct a strike or sympathy strike at you, but you may get affected if you are doing business with a corporation that does not have a Collective agreement. This is something that every company in Sweden must take into account.
This is a claim made by you/your opinion.
The unions that organize workers at companies that operate in competitive sectors of the economy like Volvo Group (as in not the Chinese owned Volvo Cars) or Scania of course know that their jobs are dependent on the company's success. If all they did all day was to do other things than work – then the companies would go bust. Everyone does of course understand that. And as a worker at Volvo Cars or Scania you can not get away with sub par productivity. There is of course a line. Workers can of course get fired in Sweden as well. And that is of course also the case for the entire Swedish labour market.
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