Tesla Unionization

[SwedishAdvocate]

Tesla only goes where they are welcome. If the Swedish government does not want Tesla to provide cars to the Swedish people, they can pass laws to prevent it.

Bigger problem is when Unions collude (would be illegal under US Anti Racketeering laws) to coerce a public company into forced Union representation.

If the workers themselves wish to be represented by a Union, they have the right to request that, but using other unionized companies to gang up on a single company is simply over the line. This type of collustion would be illegal in many developed Countries. [...

I don't know if what you write here is correct. But I'm guessing you can look at it this way: Some countries rig the game more in favor of the people that own corporations – and we are talking about some of the richest and most influential people that exist on this planet. Only elected heads of state and Military Dictators hold more power.

Other countries like Sweden in this case have/has Democratically chosen another path. The Right to Strike i written into the Swedish Constitution(!)...

Again:
Everything that Metall has done so far is legal in Sweden as I've understood it.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

The tactics are straight from the Godfather movies.

"Oh how clean workshop you have. Wouldn't it be a shame if the cleaning lady doesn't come tomorrow? Just pay a modest protection fee and we make sure there are no issues.. "

And what kind of movie is this 'straight out of'?... 'Only' 1,134 DEAD and approximately 2,500 injured... Happened just some 10 years ago.

Rana Plaza collapse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

...] This whole exercise is distressing to me because the company being targeted actually reduces green house gases today, not in some future period five to ten years from now where the efforts will have to be much more dramatic to have the same results.

I will never dispute the Good that Elon/Tesla has accomplished. As I've understood it you can look at it this way: The conflict in Sweden is about HOW the mechanics working at Tesla in Sweden are going to continue building said Good within their field of work at Tesla.

 

[Zuikkis]

Again: Look it up. Sweden has very few strike days compared to other European countries. I'm 99% certain that Sweden has less strike days than Finland for example.

You are right; here is a good statistic:

Which countries go on strike the most in Europe?

Strikes are a significant part of the culture of working life in Europe. Is industrial action more common in some countries than others?

www.euronews.com

But maybe you are just bad at striking? When Finns strike, absolutely no one is at work. When IF started Tesla strike, 90% of employees decided it's better to go to work

 

[Zuikkis]

Again:
Everything that Metall has done so far is legal in Sweden as I've understood it.

Same can be said about Tesla. Everything they have done is legal, yet they are being bullied for no reason.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

You are right; here is a good statistic:

Which countries go on strike the most in Europe?

Strikes are a significant part of the culture of working life in Europe. Is industrial action more common in some countries than others?

www.euronews.com

But maybe you are just bad at striking? When Finns strike, absolutely no one is at work. When IF started Tesla strike, 90% of employees decided it's better to go to work

What do you base that 90% figure on? According to the unions paper more than 50% are on strike now...

Tesla Unionization

Do all IF Metall mechanics get paid the same rate and benefits no matter which shop they work for?

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

You are right; here is a good statistic:

Which countries go on strike the most in Europe?

Strikes are a significant part of the culture of working life in Europe. Is industrial action more common in some countries than others?

www.euronews.com

But maybe you are just bad at striking? [My u.] When Finns strike, absolutely no one is at work. When IF started Tesla strike, 90% of employees decided it's better to go to work

Or like this:
The last ~20 years there has been almost no strikes at all in Sweden. Why? It seems to me that companies in Sweden and the unions have settled their differences at the negotiating table instead... And that has of course benefited both parties.

 

[SO16]

I can’t wait to see how this plays out.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Again:
Everything that Metall has done so far is legal in Sweden as I've understood it.

Same can be said about Tesla. Everything they have done is legal, yet they are being bullied for no reason.

Is that what you Finns do when you go on strike? Do you 'bully' 'the poor, poor corporate owners'?...

Is IF Metall in Sweden 'bullying' Tesla's CEO who also owns a ~21% share of the company?...

Again:
1. Tesla claims they are already meeting and/or exceeding the terms that would be agreed upon in a hypothetical Collective agreement between Tesla and Metall. So where's the 'bullying'?...
2. Yes. Tesla has not broken any law. But if you operate in Sweden without a Collective agreement then you can be subject to a strike/sympathy strikes... That comes with the territory as it were...

 

[BioSehnsucht]

What do you base that 90% figure on? According to the unions paper more than 50% are on strike now...

Tesla Unionization

Do all IF Metall mechanics get paid the same rate and benefits no matter which shop they work for?

teslamotorsclub.com

Are they claiming 50% of all employees (clearly untrue, as business continues as usual without issues due to Tesla employees, and a lie if that's the claim) or 50% of employees who are union members (this is fairly believable, since most aren't, but potentially misleading if they're being clever with phrasing)

 

[heltok]

Is that what you Finns do when you go on strike? Do you 'bully' 'the poor, poor corporate owners'?...

Is IF Metall in Sweden 'bullying' Tesla's CEO who also owns a ~21% share of the company?...

Again:
1. Tesla claims they are already meeting and/or exceeding the terms that would be agreed upon in a hypothetical Collective agreement between Tesla and Metall. So where's the 'bullying'?...
2. Yes. Tesla has not broken any law. But if you operate in Sweden without a Collective agreement then you can be subject to a strike/sympathy strikes... That comes with the territory as it were...

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict.[1][2] Bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by hostile intent, imbalance of power and repetition over a period of time.[3]

Force? No
Coercion? Yes.
Hurtful teasing? No
Abuse? No
Aggressively dominate? Maybe a little(escalation etc)
Intimidate? Yes
Repeated? Yes
Imbalance of social power? Yes
Hostile intent? Not initially, maybe after becoming angry.
Repetition over a period of time? Yes

Semantics schemantics. Imo more important than which label to put on it should be: Is it legal? Will it have the intended effect? Is it worth it?

The main problem I see is the only thing the union has accomplished so far is to lose business for their allies which will lead to job losses for the people their goal is to defend. Sympathy strike only works when they manage to stop a business and their attempts so far have greatly underestimated how agile and stubborn Tesla are. Maybe time to take a break, evaluate, form a better strategy and attack again in a few months.

 

[2daMoon]

A Collective agreement in Sweden doesn't run forever. It is time limited. So as I understand it the current Collective agreement that Metall has signed with companies in Sweden runs until the end of 2024. I think that Collective agreement was agreed upon in the beginning of this year. Both parties settled on wage increases that would not risk some kind of runaway inflation. And that also involved all the other unions in Sweden. Remember... 90% of the total work force in Sweden is covered by Collective Agreements. In the public sector (hospitals, schools, municipalities, communes, etc) the coverage is 100%.

Again: Look it up. Sweden has very few strike days compared to other European countries. I'm 99% certain that Sweden has less strike days than Finland for example.

Just to confirm, there is no law making a company sign a collective agreement, correct?
Companies are free to choose not to enter into a collective agreement without breaking any law, right?

 

[2daMoon]

I will never dispute the Good that Elon/Tesla has accomplished. As I've understood it you can look at it this way: The conflict in Sweden is about HOW the mechanics working at Tesla in Sweden are going to continue building said Good within their field of work at Tesla.

Please explain HOW Tesla's avoiding to enter into a collective agreement will in any way prevent these mechanics working at Tesla in Sweden from "building Good within their field of work at Tesla."

Please phrase the reply as if you are speaking to someone who believes it is wrong to purposely and negatively affect a business operation when there has been no complaint of wrong doing, no law violated, and doing so causes harm to others.

As opposed to replying from the perspective of whatever peculiar flavor of ethics it is you subscribe to which makes harming innocent people okay, as it is for their own good. Just not as good as they already had it before IF Metall chose to mess it up help.

 

[Zuikkis]

And what kind of movie is this 'straight out of'?... 'Only' 1,134 DEAD and approximately 2,500 injured... Happened just some 10 years ago.

Rana Plaza collapse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't know why you bring this up at it isn't really supporting your case?

Manufacturing in Europe has become so expensive that nearly everything is nowadays manufactured in cheap countries like Bangladesh. Even China is becoming too expensive. Unions have an impact in this as they are constantly lifting wages until the companies are no longer profitable.

Rana Plaza was making clothes for Swedish companies like Lindex, H&M, KappAhl. I'm sure they all have their union contracts signed? Did it help the people in Bangladesh? Do the companies and unions really care about workers, or is it just about tidying the "front end" in Sweden while the suffering is moved to poorer countries?

 

[Zuikkis]

I think European unions work differently though. I think they set minimum compensation rather than fix compensation based on seniority and job level - which if true makes it strange that workers don't want to unionize. Can someone more familiar with European unions shed a light?

Union membership costs money; not much but still something you might have better use elsewhere.

Bigger issue is, unions sometimes want to force strikes. If you like your job, are paid well, you might not want to hurt your employer by striking. It is common for people to end their union membership when strike starts.

So as a summary, if you are already treated well by your employer, union offers little benefit.

This said, unions still work in everyone's benefit. They set the terms even for non-members. In practice everyone has to have equal or better terms than the union, or you loose your employees to an other company..

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

What do you base that 90% figure on? According to the unions paper more than 50% are on strike now...

Tesla Unionization

Do all IF Metall mechanics get paid the same rate and benefits no matter which shop they work for?

teslamotorsclub.com

Are they claiming 50% of all employees (clearly untrue, as business continues as usual without issues due to Tesla employees, and a lie if that's the claim) or 50% of employees who are union members (this is fairly believable, since most aren't, but potentially misleading if they're being clever with phrasing)

What is this conflict about? Is it about all the employees at Tesla? Or is it about all mechanics at Tesla? So what could I possibly have meant?...

The unions paper claims more than 50% of all mechanics at Tesla, which you would have seen if you had clicked on the link(!)...

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict.[1][2] Bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by hostile intent, imbalance of power and repetition over a period of time.[3]

Force? No
Coercion? Yes.
Hurtful teasing? No
Abuse? No
Aggressively dominate? Maybe a little(escalation etc)
Intimidate? Yes
Repeated? Yes
Imbalance of social power? Yes
Hostile intent? Not initially, maybe after becoming angry.
Repetition over a period of time? Yes [...

Do you know what came to my mind?

Our Swedish saying "offerkofta". Translates to 'wearing the victim cardigan'. On a corporation like Tesla?(!)... Yeah, right...

Again for the umpteenth time:
How come all other companies of Tesla's size in this sector in Sweden can manage this Collective agreement?...

Try again.

 

[2daMoon]

Again for the umpteenth time:
How come all other companies of Tesla's size in this sector in Sweden can manage this Collective agreement?...

Because they succumbed to the force of a ruthless bully who meddled in their business, caused harm, and threatened them with more of the same if they didn't comply?

The one constant in this affair is IF Metall's insistence to address a problem that doesn't exist. No legitimate reason for their actions has been put forth. There are no complaints against Tesla. Tesla is acting within the bounds of the law, and, providing all the benefits and more that IF Metall promises, without union involvement.

What IF Metall is doing is attacking an innocent, law abiding company for their own benefit while painting the situation as being for the employee, while this whitewash of the facts has been shown to be a falsehood by the very employees they claim to represent.

 

[Tiger]

Do you know what came to my mind?

Our Swedish saying "offerkofta". Translates to 'wearing the victim cardigan'. On a corporation like Tesla?(!)... Yeah, right...

Again for the umpteenth time:
How come all other companies of Tesla's size in this sector in Sweden can manage this Collective agreement?...

It is also possible, that if Tesla has better terms, they want Tesla to fall in line so it doesn't poach their staff with better terms.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

It is also possible, that if Tesla has better terms, they want Tesla to fall in line so it doesn't poach their staff with better terms.

In Sweden a Collective agreement is a base line. There would be absolutely nothing in a Collective agreement stopping Tesla from offering better terms. And those better terms could of course continue to include compensation through stocks in some way.