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So far only those AP2.5 with thew new March 2018 onwards MCU2.

Inaccurate in the sense that they are also not installing AP2.5 MCU1 cars yet, so the question is not just the APE computer swap, but also a question of whether the MCU requires something (maybe just software, maybe some new hardware).

Except in the case of Tesla you’d only get the anti-lock brakes after later buyers (who paid less) got them installed... so you basically just paid more to get the technology later. Certainly a novel spin on ”the early-adopter tax”... ;) Not a single feature of the FSD pack of 2016 has been...

LOL. :D There are no retrofits to MCU1 cars, let alone AP2 MCU1 cars. One AP2.5 MCU1 car was retrofitted by accident and Tesla recalled the vehicle to remove the computer. This was kind of the point of interpreting what the SCs were saying, you know.

If accurate, ghost braking by TACC seems like the most likely reason here, made worse by slippery conditions causing the car to swerve.

Tesla has considerably lowered their car prices since 2016. Reality is, in 2016-2017 we paid more for the car AND more for the FSD... $8-$10k for EAP+FSD. In early 2019 people were even able to buy EAP+FSD for half that in Tesla’s discounts... Today people can buy AP+FSD for $7k AND buy the car...

Also, Happy 3rd Birthday to Non-functional FSD Pack!! :)

AP is definitely capable of taking certain types of evasive maneuvers in perceived lane enroachment scenarios, so that is not impossible. Also it is not impossible that hard braking alone could cause the car to swerve depending on weather. I mean ghost braking on AP is common enough and if that...

It is very subjective what feels right. For example for me a lawsuit would be completely counter-productive and any remedy like that just an insult. I’m far better off with just being honest about the situation. Yep, I was fooled by Tesla and now I happily have my eyes open about what kind of...

An ill-advised thread for that perhaps, as it is not on-topic for the 1000+ days club?

Why? I am not angry. I am very calmly stating an unfortunate fact: I am a victim of Tesla’s 2016 AP2 FSD bamboozle. Nobody likes to be a victim of course, but there is no use trying to deflect it either. A lot of us were. I am merely stating that this group of people are certainly entitled to...

Yeah, and the thing that makes it twice troublesome is that the full remedy simply can no longer be ”let’s deliver FSD” if you want to ”get” everyone. I don’t expect anything more (in fact I don’t expect even that in the full sense of the word), but in reality it is not sufficient anymore. The...

No AP2 MCU1, no vote.

What are you doing? Are you trying to turn a knife in the wound or what is the purpose of this message in an AP2 MCU1 2016 FSD pack thread?

I am entitled to my views, which incidentally are far more informed that yours’ are on this one. That said, common decendy these days dictates that as a fellow AP2/FSD buyer I am also far more entitled than you to voice an opinion on this. Welcome to the 21st century. ;) No, I mentioned it...

To all my fellow AP2/FSD buyers from 2016: you are absolutely within your rights to dump your Tesla and dump on Tesla, if that feels right for you. You are absolutely a victim of Tesla and feel free to vent if you want. Don’t listen to the privileged late-comers with the latest technology...

Yep. That did cross my mind. It is not quite that simple, though, because AP2.5 MCU2 cars are not getting cone display yet either.

There is actually some suggestion cone detection is there in earlier versions as well but for some technological combinatory reason they can not render them on-screen yet. That may be completely false of course, but it was something someone heard at an SC. Not that this diminishes your general...

There is also at least one word from SC saying the engineers are trying to figure out a way to do it without retrofitting MCU2. I actually have a new(ish) concern about this. Tesla is framing the cones as a rendering issue and not an FSD issue. Is Tesla preparing to limit AP2/2.5 MCU1...

I agree nothing matches with prioritizing earlier VINs, so we should just forget about the misconception as I’ve said many times now. However, to be accurate, there are two major factual errors that make your analysis inaccurate. First of all AP2.5 was introduced in the summer of 2017, not...

One comment on volumes: I of course agree HW3 retrofit volumes are abysmal and the ramp-up unconvincing. That said, there is no reason to believe this is anything other than the way Tesla intends to ramp this up — slowly and starting from the newest cars. There is nothing in the SC message or...

@diplomat33 @Mardak Model 3 Group 1 retrofits have started: Model 3 HW3 upgrade complete. A few additional details inside. : teslamotors

@Mardak @diplomat33 I see there is no convincing you, so believe what you want to believe. :) Over and out.

Tesla likes to hint at stuff like this but in reality it never, ever works that way. Please do not imagine it will be so here, you will be disappointed. Indeed already today the HW3 retrofit thread is full of people who bought their cars in 2018-2019. ONLY.

I would expect when it appears on your car’s outstanding work order and you specifically call them to ask to do it, they would oblige.

You are right, it does not make any claims regarding that. What we do know is Tesla has started AP2.5 MCU2 retrofits and has specifically excluded AP2.5 MCU1 and AP2 so far from that process so far.

You may not get a call. Nobody gets a call at first. They are getting added to the outstanding work order and they show up when you go to the SC in other business. Just like any VIN rollout of voluntary/non-urgent recall. This has all already started. It is all already in Tesla’s SC message...

That is true of course. But AP2.5 MCU1 are also Model S/X cars and we must count them as well if we are to assess how many (all?) Model S/X owners getting HW3 before Model 3.

You are right. Tesla will be nowhere near halfway Model S/X retrofits when they start with Model 3 retrofits.

For example in the case of Model X Signature, Tesla respected literal priority for perhaps first dozen reservation holders — made a PR stunt of it. Then came one or two lumps/batches and by the time they were finished with the Signature program, people abroad were getting their Signature cars...

Why is that the issue? Why are you not concerned for AP2.5 MCU1 cars where currenly SCs are saying they are not compatible with HW3? (SC is again wrong there of course but truthful when read right — they mean the current kit is not suited.)

Now, and please @diplomat33 for your own sake pay attention, as another topic it helps to be realistic what Tesla says and how they operate. You kept saying this to me in the ”Level 5 no geofence feature complete” topic and it does make sense (assessing Tesla’s misleading statements is separate...

Why are you bringing up AP2 all the time? I am talking about AP2.5 MCU1 mostly. It too has started after Model 3, which is already retrofitting, while AP2.5 MCU1 is not. Anyway, my preconcieved notions — let’s just call them what they are my experience with Tesla — certainly help me read...

Actually they don’t even promise to start from low VIN. Even @diplomat33 admits that. It does not say they’ll go in any VIN order. ”VIN rollout” is a term used with automotive recalls and it does not imply an order, but a VIN range.

I have already been proven right since this thread ”ended” so yes I know what it means. But do let’s continue in the othe thread: A post nobody asked for: How I'd handle the FSD problem (features, HW upgrades) for early adopters

I can’t believe you are the same person that didn’t take very well defined terms of ”Level 5 no geofence feature complete” literally, yet somehow are filling the gaps in that vague SC statement and taking it exceedingly literally? Why are you not trying to understand what Tesla is saying this time?

No, this time I am not saying Tesla lies. I think you misinterpret them, though I agree the message could be better. It simply stated Model S/X starts first (which it did) from the West Coast (which it did) and then they’ll basically go from there. This is outlining broadly how the concept...

And just to be clear, because it probably was not clear in the previous message, I also disagee with you older Model S/X would start before Model 3. I think we have already evidence Model 3 retrofits have started, so older Model S/X cars are already starting late compared to Model 3. Basically...

I have always gotten it, but I keep disagreeing with you, because Model 3 started shipping in summer of 2017 and Model S/X MCU2 started shipping in March 2018 — the only Model S/X Tesla is starting the retrofits with. How can Model S/X owners from 2018-2019 somehow have older cars than Model 3...

Fair enough, we’ll see how that goes. As for the SC message, I’m all for clarity. I agree it could have been better. That said, I also do think you read too much into the SC message. It does not claim all Model S/X will come before Model 3, unlike you felt, it simply states Model S/X starts...

Well, actually, what I disagreed with you was this: It looks like Tesla is not ”trying to give older Model S/X owners priority” if they are starting with newer cars, right? As for Model 3 coming only after Model S/X or Tesla not yet starting the mass upgrades... I actually think these are the...

What? @NHK X has an AP2.5 MCU1 car.

So now we have @NHK X saying his Model S/X AP2.5 MCU1 retrofit request was cancelled. Previously we have @timewasted saying his Model S/X AP2 MCU1 retrofit request was cancelled. In the meanwhile we have had the first Model 3 HW3 retrofit completion (from AP2.5 MCU2 obviously) as well as of...

I’m all for letting @Saghost and @Routybouty getting back to their meta discussion on good conversation. :) Let’s pick up the HW3 retrofit schedule analysis here: A post nobody asked for: How I'd handle the FSD problem (features, HW upgrades) for early adopters

These things are not happening because they are good things, but because they are the logical things. Tesla starting from MCU2 AP2.5 Model S/X was expected by everyone who was paying any attention to this over the past months and years — as it was the easiest retrofit target by far. Model 3’s...

As I admitted in #2658, there is certainly an element of ”me knowing the answer already” in my reaction. I would like to think it is not all there is to it, but I do admit it plays an important part. This is actually interesting and kind of ironic, because another long-standing disagreement...

Yes it is! :D

I’m emotionally invested in one thing: accurate information. I think @diplomat33 posted a falsehood when he claimed Tesla’s message somehow portrays older Model S/X cars as having retrofit priority. The message simply does no such thing.

Well, it doesn’t convey that to me. :) It talks of ”VIN rollout” which is standard language for recall type of situations that happen by VIN batches, VIN ranges. The message in no way defines what those ranges are. Maybe I’ve also been following Tesla’s comments on this one too closely but...

Or the simpler explanation: It just means the Model S/X roll-out starts first (which it already did for Model S cars newer than Model 3) and Model 3 is next, but without any claims to how far along or how widely available Model S/X retrofit is at that stage. Which would, again, fit the exact...