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Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.

Bromptons in a Model 3

I am aware Bromptons are available all over the planet, however I kinda feel this is a very British problem.

In a few short months, we will be picking up our folding camper in preparation for our travels. As part of my advance planning, I’m trying to work out how I’m going to transport the two Bromptons. Unfortunately, due to a lack of hatch, it’s not possible* to sit a Brompton upright in the boot, and on its side it takes up a lot of space, leaving very little for proper luggage and equipment.

* So having done some Googling, I found a post on this very site where a chap with a Model S found he could stash two Bromptons upright in the boot well. I’ve tried this, and whilst one Brompton fits easily, the Model 3 doesn’t have sufficient space for a second Brompton in the well. My current thinking is to stick the slightly larger electric Brompton in the boot well, still leaving quite a lot of boot space for other luggage around it, with the second Brompton lying down on the back seat (next to the child seat).

Anyone have any better ideas?

How long can it sit at 100%

Hello all

I’m aware that it’s not good to leave the car sitting at 100%, but how long is too long?

When I go on a road trip and I do change to 100%, I would prefer to charge to full using off peak energy between 12.30 and 4.30.

I have been charging that last 10% in the hour or so before setting off, but this costs 3 times as much and the last 10% takes longer than you’d think.

If I plan to set off at 8.00 AM, how bad is it to leave the car at 100% from 4.30 AM?



Losing control and crashing a 3. How's it possible?

Just witnessed a weird thing. A model 3 came to an intersection and did a sort of donut regained control and then crashed into the sidewalk curb. With all the traction control tech i thought doing a donut or drifting out even skidding and losing control at low speed on a residential street would be all but impossible. I couldn't tell if the guy was massively failing to impress with his donut skills or if it was even a display of so called unintended acceleration. Driver was lucky he didn't surely injure anyone or damage anything but his own car. Smashed up his front bumper and vents which i imagine won't be cheap.

Tesla Home charger Vs third party chargers

We were set on the Hypervolt prior to ordering it today when we spoke with Tesla and they mentioned the Tesla home charger had been refreshed with the Generation 3, which included a sleeker design and thinner cable.

What are the thoughts regarding “smart” features?

How does this compare with the scheduled charging the Hypervolt offers - would this now be controlled within the car via scheduled charging?

I’ve seen most people on this forum tend to lean towards the Hypervolt and third party chargers?

"Proactive" 12v battery replacement - good idea or overkill?

The only "major" service issue I have ever had with my 2018 P3D is that I had to have the 12v battery replaced after about 2 1/2 years. Even though it was covered under warranty, I consider it a major issue because it rendered the car undriveable and it had to be towed. At that time, there was no warning that the battery was weak. One day, the car just would not power on and I had to have it towed to the nearest SC.

My question is, is it a good idea to have the 12v battery replaced periodically even if there is no sign of a problem? If so, when would you have it replaced? Every 2 years? Every 18 months?

Just curious what other Tesla Model 3 drivers are doing in regards to 12v battery replacement. Thank you!

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Consumer Reports Updates Its Scoring System, Leaves Tesla FSD Out In The Cold

Some of the systems available right now are so good that they can lull drivers into a false sense of security.
Humans, however, are notoriously bad at passively paying attention to something.

Consumer Reports says that in the future, they’ll actually start detracting points for systems
that fail to adequately keep driver’s attention on the road.


Idaho has $2.1 million left to install DC fast chargers because no one wants it


project approved and money left:

Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment Program application:

Applications will be accepted until all available funds are exhausted or a site near your location has been selected.

Airstream/Thor introduce the eStream concept

Today Airstream and Thor announced the eStream, an electrified Airstream that has motorized wheels and a large skateboard battery. While this is technically a travel trailer, it's also an EV in itself, which is why I've placed this thread in the forum location I have.

Details from Thor: Meet the eStream

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Some details from their presentations:
  • Because of the independent drive, stability algorithms remove the need for weight distribution hitches
  • Remote control allows you to drive the trailer into the campsite in any positioning you prefer
  • Power outlet on the pack for charging your tow vehicle while stationed at camp

A lot of unanswered questions, of course. Cost, battery capacity, travel trailer weight, tongue weight, regenerative braking ability, vehicle interaction, etc. But it's a neat concept and it's exciting to see this progress.
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My Model X May Have Saved My Life

Got in a terrible accident yesterday (will leave the details scant but I was not at fault). Escaped with only minor injuries when I had no right to. My baby girl did her job and took all of the impact it could, saving me from most of it. Unfortunately that means Gray Matter is no longer part of our family.

She will be honored by Gray Matter 2.0, a Plaid X I ordered this morning. Tesla is telling me October, but they are optimistic I will have it sooner.

Stay safe out there guys and gals. You never know when something out of your control can happen. I am doubling down on driving the world’s safest SUV.



So I guess they have enough beta testers?

I was under the impression that if you paid, played their game, had a good score for a decent amount of miles and days, that you would get into the beta soon. My mistake. Apparently that’s not the case. Way too many people driving slower and more careful than a half blind grandma, that have been waiting for almost a month. It’s basically the only reason I paid for FSD. The other features aren’t worth anywhere close to the cost anymore.

I’m driving a performance vehicle like someone with a drivers permit.

You can’t merge onto freeways properly if there are any other cars without unsafe following. You can’t press the brake pedal. Even regen breaking is considered hard breaking if you let off the gas and let it come to a stop. You can’t turn at a light with the flow of traffic, apparently that’s hard turning.

Im at 99 with 1500 miles...

I think I’m done with the attempting to get into the beta...

Anyone else understand what’s going on and extremely frustrated?

IIHS implementing new safeguard rating for advanced driver assist systems

Saw this news that IIHS is implementing a new safeguard rating for advanced driver assist systems like Autopilot, SuperCruise etc... Here is the key part:

The safeguards will be rated good, acceptable, marginal or poor. To earn a good rating, systems will need to ensure that the driver’s eyes are directed at the road and their hands are either on the wheel or ready to grab it at all times. Escalating alerts and appropriate emergency procedures when the driver does not meet those conditions will also be required.

IIHS expects to issue the first set of ratings in 2022. The precise timing is uncertain because ongoing supply chain woes in the auto industry have made it more difficult to obtain vehicles for testing.

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So this is a Tesla! First impressions that don't repeat the obvious (I hope)

Hi Gang,
I picked up my new baby S yesterday after 8 months of waiting. I'm not sure if it is even a Long Range like I ordered, or a debadged (and depowered) Plaid. Either way, it's my new baby S.
I had test driven a M3 and MY once or twice each, and it's hard to really get to know a car after only 20 minutes. I tried my buddy's Plaid, and the doctor says my neck should be out of traction any day.
And then there's my new baby.
I've owned maybe 8 cars (not counting the ones I "own" or "owned" that were my wife's, kids, etc.). American. German. Japanese. Swedish. (Sadly, none from Italy ending in vowels.
We all know the S has incredible performance. No need to rehash. I'll try to give you some of the perspectives of a Tesla virgin.


1) Pickup - went fine, some minor hickups. I started programming some stuff before I signed the paperwork (nothing I'd regret). Before the paperwork, my secret lair (aka home) was not to be entered in to the GPS, nor anything else should I not sign and choose to bolt. I did pair my phone however. Short story - car was flawless (and i scrutinized). Missing some trunk covers to be sent to me, fine, let's move on.

2) I stopped off at a Krispy Kreme about 2 minutes away. and i was honked at for not merging like a maniac onto the busy street first. F them. they were in an ICE - I know i could out accelerate them. Probably out eat them, too.

3) so...at Krispy Kreme's parking lot - I had my bounty on the floor in place (and smelling pretty good). time to f around with a few more settings including navigation. was going to my buddy's house. already programmed locations my work, home, and favorite gumar. I decided to let my phone charge, and not deal with Waze. Let's see if Elon was a cub scout.

4) The GPS had me go some ways a little differently that I might have, but that's fine. was solid.

5) took some time to get the hang of a smidgeon of on screen controls - like the music, etc. - it is hard to f around, read, and touch a moving screen, all the while you are a white knuckle with 2 hands on a half wheel in a death grip. I shortly therafter tried voice control, and it was amazing - best I ever experienced in a car.

6) I could request (through Tesla) any song I could think of (I do this with Amazon/Alexa as well). With about 10 obscure (okay, crappy old songs, per my kids) I was about to get about 8 exactly, and 2 covers. I couldn't get the actual, maybe not available, or maybe I have to ask a different way.

7) I next tried voice control for other things. the displayed speech recognition was PERFECT almost every time (and I'm a mumbler!) - except for my buddy's cell; he has a foreign name, and I may have to rename the cell contact to make it better understood. I was disappointed that some things said, "um, not yet, maybe in the future" - i don't remember exactly what, one was raise the suspension, not sure of the other. firmware updates may improve.


8) temperature. I had a hard time getting comfortable. it was about 50 out (unseasonable warm), sun was going down, and the air would either blow too hot or too cool. maybe a firmware update will improve, maybe it's me. I wasn't in love with the temperature regulation.

9) sound - i thought it was good. not the best I've ever heard, and certainly not horrible. I'm not an audiophile, but I swear I heard some things in some songs I know well I hadn't heard before. I've at times experienced that with different headphones, etc. - so let's give props for that.

10) headlights - some folks are sure new matrix headlights, and new tail lights are coming to the US maybe in March. Might be, might not be. I don't know. I wanted new lights. i heard the stock lights are horrible. And I have to disagree. I don't think they're as good as my outgoing German headlights. I think they're better than the headlights on the other 3 cars in my household. They are a bright white LED and do have artifacts - you can see bright spots, etc. like where the reflectors meet. Not bad or annoying, but visible. They did a great job of lighting up city streets and dark country roads. The auto highbeams worked about as expected; I had read complaints, and have to disagree - they were fine. I also appreciated the turning corner beams, which I love in every car, and these worked fine as well. Would matrix lights be better? probably. But I wasn't kicking my VIN to the curb and risk losing a car for months, or losing my $15k pre priced car - thank you very much.

11) Road noise - very good. Today I could hear the tires. My firmware updated, and my ARNR was calibrating, i don't know if ever finished or not for my short commute. No biggie.

12 Seat comfort - Personal taste - I'll have to dial that in. My back did hurt last night, but that's also not unusual.


13) rear view mirror/rear visibility - complete crap. I noticed the Y's rear view was crescent shaped, and the S is no different. There's a smallish rear view mirror, and a smallish crescent opening above the rear seats and below the roof. Better get used to the on screen displays, and don't jam on the weak brakes.

14) brakes - err, weak. I only had to use a handful of times, mostly because I didn't properly judge where to stop accelerating near the end of my trips for 2 different left turns - one i was too fast towards oncoming traffic and needed to slow down, the other was near my home, i punched the juice to show the wife and a kid, and then i was too fast downhill for our left turn. I'll get better.

15) Main screen (the big buy) generally intuitive. very shiny. Came with the factory screen protector (even shinier i presume) that i'll leave on for now. I bought 2 matte protectors from Abstract Ocean i was sure I'd install instantly. I'll see about the rear screen and my kangaroo kicking kids, the front may wait, or maybe i'll put on this weekend. lot of glare, but didn't bother me too much, but that brings me to the driver's display.

16) driver's display - this annoyed me. made with some space age mirror material - the glare was horrible, and bothered me more than the main screen. also, i kept seeing "things" on it - whether it was a street light or post reflected, or possibly the FSD animations (or both) - it looks like stuff is going in peripherally when I'm driving - it might be turn arrows or garbage cans, and I will have to get used to it...but if there was a matte screen protector for it (and i'm not worried about scratches on a none touch screen) i'd buy one in an instant. the glare annoyed me that much.

17) controls - on screen, and on the app. I'm still learning (hey, only had the car like 16 hours). i had trouble figuring out if blue meant activated or not. you'd imagine it does. but like blue and auto for the climate control - was that the whole climate control, or just a/c? i'm still not sure. Similarly, in the app, climate - the button can say on - does that mean it IS on (i don't think so) or pressing it will turn the thing on (i think more likely). this will take some time.

17a) control responsiveness - this deserves thunderous applause. I'm not sure if this is always the case, or if the car goes to sleep and then needs time to awaken, but any time i've pressed the horn, light, etc. the response has been just about instant - like 1/2 a second or so. On my other cars (every single one of them) the phone app would have a 2 to 3 minute lag (or longer) if it worked at all. Remote start a German car? you have about a 50/50 chance. One time after 5 minutes my Benz started just as I got to the door handle (which of course instantly shut it) Gee, thanks Daimler!

18) Easy entry - again, small learning curve - I think i set some easy entry settings last night, and then didn't switch back into my profile so i had the wrong profile and settings while driving. that's okay, i'll get the hang of it.

I think 18 kinda sums it all up. there's a learning curve. in some ways huge. In most ways, a lot of little things. maybe 100. nothing fatal, nothing to keep you from getting to your destination, but plenty of ways to customize, tweak your experience, and improve your enjoyment. From the receipt of my car yesterday, until I sell/trade it in (anticipated to be 36 to 45 months from now, I won't own a car out of warranty) - I don't expect INCREDIBLE software/firmare improvements or changes. I expect incremental improvements. Maybe a tweak for the AC here, maybe some extra features in the app there. Unlock more performance for some money? sure, how much performance, and how much money. FSD beta 12.99? why not. True full level 4 self driving? I doubt it in 3 years, but hey, if the hardware is capable, and if the software is capable, AND if the NHTSA allows, then yes. Otherwise, I expect improved FSD betas that approach level 4 and keep getting better. Tweaks to the sound system. suspension. Anything that is computer controlled (everything but the tire) can be tweaked or improved. And I see Tesla doing that.
In some 3 years, will I get another Tesla? (Well, I have a Y for my wife on the way in 2 months, we may keep or I'll flip). But in 3 years, I expect 1) new battery tech (4680, phosphate, whatever). I expect more and better competition. and I expect improvements from Tesla - whether the S +, or Plaid Plus, or Cybertruck, Roadster, etc. 3 years is a short time and a long time, and as the ICE goes the way of the dinosaur, we'll be seeing far more (and more rapid) EV adoption. Service stations turning into destination points. Other manufacturers finally offering viable alternatives to Tesla. And Tesla out-Tesla'ing itself. Should be a good time.

Okay, end of rant. Read or not, Agree or disagree or not. But hopefully you enjoy your Tesla or whatever you end up driving, and hopefully you get to enjoy all that it has to offer.

$12K for FSD is insane

I paid $6K for FSD, I wouldn't do it again knowing what I know now. The idea of paying $12K for something that doesn't work and might never work is crazy. I bet their uptake on FSD is going to drop to near zero after this price increase. Does anyone feel that FSD is worth $12K, now or if even if they achieve Level 4 (note that Elon said Level 4 on is annual by the end of next year it will work tweet, in the past he always said Level 5 so he's losing confidence).

Side Cameras and Purple Light

Well Interesting bit of piece of info from Telsa's service team.. The purple that shows on the Blind Spot camera view at night is because we have inferior cameras. Yep, My 2020 MY has inferior cameras already, and needs to be replaced in order to use the function they just added in out software? So they add a new functions that makes what (90% just throwing a number) of there cars not function right?? because we all have inferior cameras?

Tesla's response to a request to get system, to work:
"The Blind spot camera performance on older vehicles is neither a defect of materials or workmanship. It is a characteristic of the product. And it's a characteristic that has been design enhanced in new vehicle production.
If you wish to upgrade upgrade the vehicle to newer camera technology, their is an option to purchase the u[graded cameras and have them installed. Would you like to purchase the upgraded camera option?"

Now I get that my radar/camera system is not the newest, but a year old and you add an option that makes it not work as intended?

Anyone else have luck with getting the purple fixed etc?
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My $9241 XMAS 2021 & New Year 2022 Repair Bills

I paid 2 repair bills totalling about $9242 within 3 days. The Model S was bought used inventory and had a 4 year warranty expiring in 2023 (just before Tesla reduced their coverage to 1 year). This warranty was on top of the battery and drivetrain warranty First, let me just describe a bit of background since others may find this useful if it happens to them.

Just before christmas, Dec 18th I had a warning light : "Vehicle coolant is low". I booked an appointment for service and was scheduled for January 2022, the car sat in my garage connected to charger unused, then on December 20th, the vehicle would not charge and I sent a message to Tesla service through the tesla app. The service adviser asked me if I could come in the same day. The service center on Railside in Toronto was 18km from my home so I agreed to drive the car in.

Not long after I entered the highway, the car entered safe mode, where it would take 1 minute to accelerate from 0 to 10kph (it was stop and go on the highway). Within a few minutes, there was a warning sign to pull over and I exited the highway. Car crawled another 300 meters or so past the first traffic light and then says "shutting down now". It stopped completely and would not move out of Park. Outside temperature was about 0C. (32F).

I was blocking the right lane of a 2 lane street shortly after the exit of a highway at rush hour so in spite of the emergency 4-way flashers, a lot of drivers were still annoyed at me enough to lean on their horns (some repeatedly). The tesla app "Roadside Assistance button" was not working at all for me, I messaged the service advisor and was given a number to call. To cut to the chase, I was extremely lucky as the nearest flatbed truck available was supposed to be 40 minutes & 50km+ away but one happened to be at the same tesla service center I was heading for - it took him a mere 15minutes to show up just after another tow truck (non-flatbed) showed up and offered his services which I had to decline --- one primary reason for a flatbed (according to the flatbed truck driver) is that the battery is low and may get damaged if towed any other way.

I was then told over several escalating estimates within the app (which you had to approve for them to continue) that the car needed lots of parts : suspension front and back, LH and RH, condensor, radiator, condensor, valves, radar replaced. As the reason they quoted was impact damage. I was surprised as the only thing I can recall was mounting the curb in an underground garage at low speed a week prior, but I suppose it was possible so I didn't think much of it. The final invoice which I had to approve totalled $6581.27 P&L . I figured it was just one of those things and agreed to get them all repaired. However as they had to order a part from the US my estimate for completion kept changing every couple of days until it finally was finally fixed on Jan11th which was the day I picked up the car. On the drive back home, just before I was to exit the highway applying the brakes gave a very loud repeated grinding sound - I could have driven the car back to the service center but instead just used the app to book a service appointment. I described the problem, making a note that I had just taken the car back from service.

Brought car in back to them asap and then had a message with an estimate of full brake service with f&b L&R brake pads, rotors etc.

Anyone who has driven a Tesla knows with regen braking, cruise control and the weight of these cars knows how rare it is you have to apply brakes at speed. Just releasing the accelerator would slow the car down within seconds, and braking typically would start below 20kph. Besides that the car was driving flawlessly before I brought it in for service.

When a service advisor called me, I asked for someone to inspect the car at the ramp first to ensure that everything was tightened and reassembled properly before they replace these parts. I also reminded him of two things (1) There was no mention of the brake issues when they returned the car to me and (2) the car was driving perfectly when I dropped it off before Christmas. 30 minutes later I had a call that the mechanic confirmed that the car needed all brake pads replaced and the estimate was $2000+. In spite of my repeated request that someone lift the car up to take a look before any work starts, the service advisor stated that the mechanic was certain the car needed new brakes.

Instead of this continuous aggravation, I just said, fine, I approve the work, just return the parts to me so I can enlighten my friends at the TMC with a nice tesla christmas story. And so the work was completed the next day, I came in morning 10am and picked up the car, enjoyed a couple of days preparing to document this tale to the community.

I measured brake pads and looked at the rotors ---- the pads had 8-9mm of depth. - I added a picture where I measured 8.69mm of depth. To me the rotors and the pads looked fine, though there was a fresh new pit on one of the rotors - I can't tell how the pit was caused - and I have no evidence if it was caused by a hammer after removal or if a loose brake assembly was moving and rattling in that few minutes of driving I did after it had completed service. Or perhaps it was legitimate and something caused the rotor to get a new pit in that few minutes I drove the car.

There's pictures below.

[Moderator note: Changed initial drop-off date from January 20th to December 20th.]
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Electric Vehicle Charging Program, read the public comments.

There is 8 days left of Public Comments for the

Electric Vehicle Charging Program in Infrastructure Bill.​

The Docket for this is here, with tabs for Document and Comments.
Document is here, the summary:


The recently enacted Bipartisan Infrastructure Law invests in the deployment of electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure as one of many important ways to confront the climate crisis. Through a National Electric Vehicle Formula Program (EV Charging Program), the law provides funding to States to strategically deploy EV charging infrastructure and to establish an interconnected network to facilitate data collection, access, and reliability. The law also establishes a discretionary grant program for Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (Charging and Fueling Infrastructure Program) to strategically deploy publicly accessible EV charging infrastructure and hydrogen, propane, and natural gas fueling infrastructure along designated alternative fuel corridors or in certain other locations that are accessible to all drivers of such vehicles. The law directs DOT, in coordination or consultation with the Department of Energy (DOE), to develop guidance for both programs. Through this notice, FHWA invites public comments to inform the development of the guidance. FHWA is especially interested in comments suggesting ways that the guidance could promote equity in the deployment of EV charging infrastructure under these programs.

I saw EVgo published a 20 page letter to site (more on that below).

Encourage others to discuss and post opinions here.

I did, suggesting that ALL NEW construction be EV Ready, with space in Electrical Panel or a space for second Electrical Panel, conduit, and location reserved for charging units.
It is far cheaper to make accommodation now than tearing up structures to retrofit, and the expense of making room is trivial to retrofitting. Having the space and conduit in space is an incentive when to install.

Contemplating another for grants of $1000~2000 for installing public Level 2 chargers.

Reading what EVgo posted, this caught my eye:
Founded in 2010, EVgo owns and operates the nation’s largest network of public fast charging stations for EVs, with over 800 DC Fast Charging (DCFC)station locations across the U.S., as well as more than 1,000 Level 2 chargers nationally. Altogether, EVgo‘s owned and operated network spans 35 states and 68 metropolitan areas and 310,000 customer accounts nationally. We are aggressively expanding this network as we speak, with over 2,500 stalls currently in our active engineering and construction pipeline.

I do not think its true, a quick search for Tesla said:
"There are 1,201 Tesla Superchargers locations in the United States as of November 25, 2021." Naturally can look at this.

Not read much, but it looks to be massively biased. (no surprised, really)
And I think in every state.

Don't want model Y anymore.

For reasons unrelated to the ridiculous notion of spending an entire day travelling to collect a brand new £57k car, I've decided not to go ahead with collecting my Y. I've just got the text asking me to collect on the 19th.

I have a 2017 Model X that's doing fine and I ordered the Y thinking that it may be a very long time before I got the Model X that I ordered in Jan 2021. It seems likely that I will get the Model X at the end of 2022 so I think I'll just wait it out with the model X that I already have.

Just wondering what to do?

Cancel and lose the £100,
Pick it up and resell ( I don't need to finance it if I'm going to turn it around)?
Or can I just pass on the reservation to someone?

Model Y now unaffordable for most of us

Owned a Chevrolet volt since 2013, waiting for a Tesla I could afford. Followed all of the cost reductions in the batteries and structure only to see one price increase after another, including the deletion of lr rwd on model y making it a 60,000 car. The loss of federal tax credit of 7500 did not help, Musk’s reply to this is Tesla doesn’t need it, my reply is I did. Many comparable suv’s coming out, ie ioniq5, ev6 and q4 15-20000 less expensive. I considered Musk the Henry Ford of the ev, but I must say adios because he has left me behind.

Any compelling alternatives to a Model Y?

I've had a M3 Dual motor for almost 3 years.
I like my M3 quite a bit with the exception of a few gripes such as road noise, blind slot alerts and over all level of luxury not being up to par compared to other cars in that price range.
I'm looking into getting a Y, however i realize that the complaints I have about the 3, will be the same..

Have there been any compelling alternatives to Tesla released over the past few years? I hear good things about the Polestar, the Kona, how about the audi, benz, jag offerings?

I always felt that the supercharger network is a huge advantage, has electrify America developed into a reasonable alternative?

Does anyone else have lane keeping that is as good as autopilot?
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