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I outgrew adding noise when I was 8 years old.

The weight issue is just noise. If the car is that much lighter, they will just make the motors/Controllers that much cheaper and less powerful. Job #1 is making TM3 profitable at half the price of the TMS. Everything will have to be cut to achieve that.

That really doesn't make sense. The TM3 won't be built using the motors/controllers out of the TMS. Those will purpose built for TM3, with the goal of making them as cheap as they can possibly get away with. Which will based on just meeting the performance target. Not exceeding it (making...

Power controllers are expensive, motors are expensive, batteries are expensive. These will all be cost reduced (less powerful) along with the lower weight. I expect the TM3 will be slower than than TMS.

I think it is more likely the telemetry device they are using, experiencing a glitch. I doubt that speed reading is from the Teslas actually speedometer.

Sounds like it he is talking about David Copperfield doing magic. If he would only show me how to do it, I could do magic too...

I went back and measured(again) using the Silver press image. I straightened it and did a few measurements then averaged: Front Wheel Visible diameter: 149.5 pixels Rear Wheel Visible diameter: 146.5 pixels WB: 790.5 pixels Length: 1169.5 pixels. Most information places the wheels as 20"...

People who saw it in person seem to report something about the size of a Mazda 3 sedan, Which is closer to 182". Going by wheel measurement scaling. Most of seem to be coming in around 114" WB, ~170" length. A full foot shorter. If it were nearly a full foot shorter than Mazda...

44KWh for 220 miles EPA(as well as all the others), is crackpot theory territory. There is nothing in there worth discussing, unless we want to laugh at how silly and out to lunch it is.

Street, yes. Track, no. A general purpose EV will not be engineered to have cooling necessary to go flat out on a track for long periods of time (race/multiple laps). But the amount of people who actualy track their cars, is a niche way under 1% of the market. With so many advantages, some...

It's a lot more likely (>99%) that it simply uses temperature sensors, and not duty cycle.

Cooling an EV is simply an engineering trade off. There is Formula E, Electric racing. The 2015 overall winner of the Pikes Peak hill climb was an electric car. So you can cool an EV for racing/track usage if you want to. But for a general purpose street car, a heavier, more expensive cooling...

I am perfectly happy with the TM3 front end that Tesla showed, as well as the TMS new front end. It looks >99% certain that TM3 will get one of these two front ends, so it is win either way IMO.

Volt is a poor example it actually gets poor range/pack size. Give the Volt 60 KWh and same range/pack size, and you only get: Volt 53 miles/18.4 KWh * 60KWh = 173 miles Reserve capacity isn't a set size, it's a Percentage you want to maintain for battery life. The deeper you cycle, the more...

Where are you getting those specs? I don't know about 0-60, but 225 mile range seems quite unlikely unless they are also misstating the, battery capacity and/or Cd. Also the Bolt is not a CUV/Crossover. It around the same size as Ford Fiesta, Honda Fit, it's smaller than the old Pontiac Vibe.

The big smiley face should have been indication that I am fully away of what I did. This bickering was all started by a BMW fan attacking Teslas for overheating on the track, and following by incessantly bragging how fast the 0-60 time is. 0-60 time achieved by "Launch Control" Which BMW warns...

Isn't this just the same post that you made before, with a slightly different BMW, ignoring the same real world numbers you ignored before? It really looks like trolling, when you make the same post over and over, cherry picking the same data to make the same disingenuous point. Highlighting...

Sure with Launch control. With appropriate cooling time in between. :D IIRC BMW recommends letting the car cool for 5 minutes before using Launch Control again.

That is C&D, and we have been quoting all along for everything else. Now it isn't good enough because it doesn't back your claim?

What would really annoy me is having to put a license plate on the front. Ruining the looks and messing a bit with aerodynamics. To Bad you couldn't get some kind of removable decal instead of the plate.

Given the reveal of the new Model S front end, I think it is obvious that the shape is here to stay. The only question is if the Model 3 stays naked or gets the Model S badging. I think it will end up the front end badging for brand consistency. I am fine with it either way.

Seems like a dubious claim: 2016 BMW 340i xDrive - Instrumented Test Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec Top gear, 30-50 mph: 7.1 sec Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.5 Standing ¼-mile: 13.3

I didn't make this comparison, I am just correcting the inaccurate statement, that the BMW was as quick as the 70d. If you have a problem with the comparison, take it up with "BMW ///M3".

Except for the numbers important in the real world that you left out: BMW 228 xdrive: Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.2 sec Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.8 sec 70 D Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.0 sec Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.1 sec The 70d is much...

Why should everyone have to pay the price of a track ready cooling system, when almost no one would use it. That isn't more robust engineering. It's actually poor engineering when you are trying to hit price targets. At some point, perhaps they can offer a track cooling package for the few that...

I bet less than 1% of BMW drivers ever go to a track.

It's a reasonable assumption that Tesla is already doing it's best for aerodynamics, and that people futzing around in Photoshop with no access to a wind tunnel are only going to make it worse.

I don't know, there have been a lot of EV FUD coming from toyota. Lexus' Anti-EV Ad Lives On Chief Toyota engineer says electric cars are not practical | News | Geek.com And little sign that they see both coexisting: Toyota Sees No Market For Pure Electric Vehicles - Inside EVs

however in total, the results are similar. We will continue to update GREET as more research is pursued to reduce the discrepancies between bottom-up and top-down analyses of CH4 emissions in the NG system. It isn't necessary the case that they are using the wrong set of data, just there is a...

Focus RS: Ford Focus RS - Car and Driver Rolling start 5-60: 5.7 seconds. Base Model 3 should be comparable to that, while likely having more reasonable insurance rates. ;) Lexus IS F - Car and Driver Only show 0-60 in 4.7, rolling start in 5.1 seconds and price over $60K. I am sure if you...

Yes, while new generating capacity is mostly Renewable, bigger swings appear to be from usage changes in existing capacity. Though new renewable capacity will come into play more as it continues to shift in this direction. The 2015 GREET update, only shows TOTAL 1% more emissions for Shale gas...

Still not making sense. You claimed that the UCS map made the grid cleanup look too good. Because NG is has worse impacts than they were taking into account. Your evidence, is updates to GREET, which UCS is taking into account, since they are based on GREET.

Not sure what your point is here. Your link doesn't work for me, but it looks like this is just the annual update to Greet model NG extraction overhead. There is an update like this every year for GREET. IOW, this is already in the GREET model, which is what NCS used.

My main argument with your post is the claim that Natural Gas really isn't as good as it appears and that GREET (Argonne Lab work modeling emissions) model is not good enough and you know better. Secondary to that is the claim that the grid cleanup is benefiting from that false impression...

Not Just so the Model S stays king. But also to save on productions costs. Smaller/lighter/less powerful motors cost less to produce, contribute less to vehicle mass, require less powerful (less expensive) power electronics, potentially less strain on batteries, perhaps less cooling, etc. There...

I do read multiple sources, including the GREET work. In fact the UCS model is based on GREET. How do you calculate an electric vehicle’s CO2e emissions? To calculate an EV’s emissions, we first identify where the car is charged. This tool matches a ZIP code with an electric grid region...

What facts? You are making assumptions and doing simplified calculations. UCS numbers are based of the most detailed models available today. This is done by a lot of serious scientists, checking each others working and updating annually. That you presume you know better, is laughable. If...

To me this is the kind of wishful thinking that sets people up for disappointment.

Exactly. These comparison are really only going to highlight how much better Tesla is. The comparison is natural as they are the only two EVs under $40K, with 200+ mile range, that have been announced. I really hope that when Bolt is released, Tesla has some finalized preproduction cars they...

I think Tesla would like preserve more performance differences between TM3 and TMS. You want some reasons for people to keep buying the TMS.

I think EVs have clear advantages in several environmental areas. CO2: Look at the UCS graph posted previously, and the delta between them. EVs really are better in just about every locality and certainly overall. This is important for the long term health of our entire ecosystem. Other...

Not sure I would go that far, but I don't like it either, and my best friend + wife wanted an EV and they ruled out Leaf on ugly factor alone. They got a Volt instead.

Don't get too carried away. I believe those were performance "P" dual motor prototypes, and the when Elon said the production will be faster, he meant the P versions. I would expect the normal dual motor versions to be only slightly faster as they are with the TMS 70 and 70d. I expect We will...

I think the coolest thing about the UCS graphics is how fast they are improving. I just 3 years, nearly everywhere in the country has grid improvements. Some are very dramatic (adding 20mpg equivalent to EVs). Looking at where we are today, EVs are just about untouchable East/West and South...

The Union of Concerned Scientists produce a nice MPG equivalent map. Here are a relatively new one and and one a couple of years old (2015 v 2012?). This shows in many places, that an EV is better than anything but a Prius, and it also shows, that the grid is cleaning up fast. So the EV you buy...

5-60 Rolling start is just a better real world metric for all cars, not just EV's. It what I always use to compare car performance. Because the typical drive-train abusing, drag strip launch is not something I would ever do in my gas cars anyway. 5-60 is more typical of even a very fast street...

I agree. Volt is is a true EREV, which is superior to the PHEV Prius, not only in range but in function. I read a study of Volts. The overall breakdown of Electric vs Gasoline miles was something like 75% Electric, 25% Gasoline. This is a great intermediate step. It would be much better to...

That is an extremely unlikely "IF". If that happens, look at the Toyota Hybrids as an example. For years the only good hybrids were Toyota Hybrids. Remember the Honda Insight 4 door. Poor knockoff of a Prius, flopped big time. But car companies didn't just give, up. They just kept working at...

Not it doesn't. It ask how you feel about the current, grill-less front end, and if you want to change it, or keep it the same. In no way does that imply the only change I am talking about is sticking on a fake grill. It also includes attempts to reshape it, and I think most people get that. I...

The problem with not charging a usage fee, is that it creates a large, unfunded, future liability. AFAICT, the Supercharger fees charged Explicitly and later Hidden in the Model S, and Model X, simply ended up in general revenues. There is no large fund being created to support future...