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No, that's not what I am suggesting. Read again and you will find "degrade/downgrade" and I could have added "damage".

Again, lack of guarantee does not give Tesla the right to actively degrade/downgrade cars they no longer own.

They have the same capacity as NCR18650A it seems. Are you sure they are not A-s? At least in the early models.

DJRas Actually my assumption was mostly based on this by Jason, 85-type | Battery Modules | Products | 057 Technology where he writes "similar to NCR18650B". This however, Model S Battery Voltage? seems to indicate the 60 and 85 cars have 'very similar to' NCR 18650A cells. Puzzling...

I thought NCR18650B was close enough but ok. Regardless, 4 A turned out not to be safe so I'll bet they stretched the Panasonic spec.

Thanks, but LG 2500 mAh is not used by Tesla, is it? In the Panasonic NCR18650B spec I only find 'Charging current Std.1625mA', no max current.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster_(first_generation) "The pack is designed to prevent catastrophic cell failures from propagating to adjacent cells (thermal runaway), even when the cooling system is off.[121] Coolant is pumped continuously through the ESS both when the car is running...

Do you have a link? And what is a C/25 charge?

Thanks, that made me stumble across this, Tesla Roadster (first generation) - Wikipedia "The pack is designed to prevent catastrophic cell failures from propagating to adjacent cells (thermal runaway), even when the cooling system is off.[121] Coolant is pumped continuously through the ESS both...

Or they knew from day one? https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-lithium-ion-batteries " Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell. Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes."

I have linked to Teslas description of their superchargers earlier. Supercharger | Tesla Motors. This is what they sold. There is no need for a warranty coverage against active willful degrading/downgrading/damaging of another persons property. It's illegal. This must not be mixed up with normal...

Not all were restored and others are being drained to 90% or less. Maybe some in your group also. The charging speed was advertised as half capacity in about half an hour and that's how it used to be. Supercharging Tesla Model S 60 kWh Versus 85 kWh - Video + Graphs Customers accepted the...

That's a different issue. The charging speed wasn't reduced as a result of 'improving' the entertainment package for instance.

You know so why do you ask? Reduced capacity, first by capping then by draining the battery after charging, and reduced charging speed (power).

And none of them are allowed to lower the specs compared to what they were at time of delivery.

No they don't. They believe they will save money, which they probably will in the short run. They clearly do not care about the long run, or do not plan to remain in the car business. Anyway, it's not for Tesla to decide what to do with my property.

The advertising said 150 miles in about half an hour. https://web.archive.org/web/20130403021612/http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger But why does it matter? What gives Tesla the right to downgrade cars they no longer own? To damage private property.

"There is no advantage to waiting ..." At 0 deg C my S60 is using 0.7 kwh to heat the HV battery, 0.7 kwh to charge the HV battery and 0.3 kwh in 'losses', so Teslas recommendation is extremely inefficient at low temperatures.

Thanks, but Toyota didn't shrink the tank after the car had been handed over to the customer. Still a wrong decision since this is not a warranty issue. Toyota sold a different product to what was advertised, which is fraud, not breach of warranty.

When I buy a ICE car I do not need a guarantee against the car maker breaking into my garage and shrinking the fuel tank or partly blocking the filling pipe so that it takes half an hour to fill the tank. If that really is the case in the EV world the law makers are not up to speed.

What is limiting the SuC rate? Battery hardware (degradation?) or the BMS?

Thanks, no, no other access. I have also tried turning off remote access. Tesla did swap a memory chip but it's still MCU1 as far as I know, so I doubt that's the cause.

Awake for how long? The diagram is so blurry. My car is asleep around 14 hours and awake 8-9 hours continuously. My 12V battery is new and 9 hours awake just for charging seems awfully long.

Hehe, yes, in Teslas alternative reality it probably is an improvement. In the real world it is inflicting damage to the property of another person without the other person’s permission.

I mean have they explained what makes it necessary to reduce the charge rate?

Have they explained why?

Ok, thanks. I did some more logging and I see what I wrote is misleading. Last time I logged all and I suspect SMT didn't keep up. Today I logged BMS only and things look more likely. A spread from 2.53 to 2.85 V. (SOC around 35%)

Hmm.. SMT just showed 4 bricks around 2.6 V in my S60 (but 64 of the 84 bricks above 3.2V). SOC around 20% and power limited by the BMS to around 160 kW. Do you know what the SOC was when your battery failed?

wk057 Thanks! (I think it's 64 instead of 62, but that's probably not the end of the world)

Max cont. cell current: 233/74=3.15 A (from your webpage) S 60: 3.6V*3.15A*5376 cells = 61 kW max continuously (don't know what voltage to use, ~300 V batt. volts?) S 85: 3.6*3.15*7104 = 80 kW max continuously Is that about right?

I have tried finding more info but no huge success. No max discharge current specs, but this was a bit shocking: "Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell. However, Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes in their battery cell packs." Tesla 18650 Battery...

A warrenty that Tesla would not 'break into' our cars and downgrade them? Totally unacceptable.

Why do they drain the battery to below 90% by running the pumps if 90 is fine?

80% margin to Elon von Crook not that bad? https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/02/bloomberg-nef-battery-lithium-ion-cell-energy-density-graph-chart-2-BNEF.png https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2020/01/13/how-battery-costs-impact-teslas-margins-an-interactive-analysis/

Hm... My S 60 stays awake half the day with DC-DC output of 45 W but none of the pumps are running. (batt. pump 1 & 2 and powertrain pump, which is all the pumps I find in ScanMyTesla)

Thanks. Yes, TeslaLogger is probably the thing. I was hoping to avoid a new computer system just for monitoring the battery management computer on wheels, named car by some... I tested running SMT 'all the time'. The battery management computer - ehm - car, stayed awake most of the 22 hours...

I have 30 mV idle and much higher during charging. Could high imbalance be the indicator of battery/drain gate batteries?

Exactly. As long as Tesla is allowed acting like criminals, we need a way to log as much as possible. I started looking for a bluetooth extender so I can get SMT into the house. Other issues: will SMT keep trying to connect 'for ever' when the car is off? and, is there a way to reduce the rate...

Isn't it likely battery gate turned into drain gate? And, can the parameters in SMT be trusted after all this?

4. Charged to 88.1%. Pumps stopped after ~3:30 hours but the car stayed on at least 30 mins more. SOC at 86.9% Cell avg 4.049 volts and Cell max 4.055 So, the trigger is not a fixed value of SOC or cell voltage or the like, and then this is getting a bit time consuming. Time for some conspiracy...

Do you know when it got implemented?

More test results. Logged the Battery tab of ScanMyTesla. 2. Same as the first test. Charged to 99%. After 19 hours pumps stopped and car switched off. SOC slightly above 89%. Minimum of Cell avg voltage: ~4.064 Minimum of Cell max: ~4.071 3. Charged to slightly above 90%. After 3+ hours pumps...

6 KwH you mean? Anyway, I have to know more about how this strange organism is supposed to work before I can decide whether I have a problem or not. Seems reading thousands of comments is the only way to make progress.

Thank you for all your good work on this. I noticed similar a few days ago, so I have only run one test so far. Pumps stopped when SOC had dropped to around 89-90%. Took between 18 and 24 hours after SOC to 99%. Charge cable was not connected. Model S 60, 2014, basic + dual chargers. SC replaced...