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No, if they believe in their approach, they should do something like invest $10 billion this year and quadruple their AI training compute.. They would also lay the groundwork for getting their approach approved in more jurisductions like China and Europe...which they are doing. Don't get me...

My free trial has ended, so I will not be doing any more FSD drives until 12.4.x is available for me, at which point I will re-subscribe for a month. After 30 days of heavy use of FSD 12.x, my basic conclusions: 2 Significant areas I am looking to be improved with the next major update or two...

Making logistical / progress in China as well: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-29/tesla-clears-key-china-fsd-hurdle-with-baidu-mapping-deal

Exactly correct. If you purchased EAP (Enhanced AutoPilot) with your Plaid, you should have the following available to you now: AutoPark Navigate on Autopilot (this is like FSD 'light' for highway driving) Auto Lane Change (om Highway) If you have not purchased EAP, then at this point you...

At least has to be comparable in terms of comfort and efficiency....as long as it is significantly cheaper.

More progress...

Exactly why I started this thread. Granted, my personal route and observations will be anecdotal...but I believe will be at least somewhat telling.

Wrong on both counts. Why is it, that if someone has a different opinion than you, that that someone must be "naive" or "new?" When Elon did his "Zuckerburg drive" about a year ago announcing / demoing the new architecture with Ashok, my first reaction was "it's going to be another few years...

Much more "reliable" in my experience. In any case this is the primary reason why I started this thread and put the effort in to documenting my experience. To show direct evidence (or lack thereof) of increasing reliability as new versions come out. With some measure of objectivity and also...

So we agree that v11 was no where near "getting acceptable". v12 is different.

You should try using it.

I do understand what you're saying. I just believe that this technology (automated driving) is enabling to the point where that will overcome the challenges you cite. At some point, it will be accepted, just like automobiles were over horse and carriage...which faced similar bad press, FUD, etc.

Of course. If you obfuscate an investigation for starters (like cruise did), you lose trust. Even in that case, they will be resuming operations.

Exactly my point. This is all to say that again, we can agree to disagree. This is by no means "not debatable." I'll see your "they took our jobs" meme, and raise you several blocks of people lined up to get a free ice cream cone or slurpee.

How are automated cars operating in San Fran if automated driving has been suspended? No argument there. ;) But people do relentlessly demand "cheaper" , "more convenient", and "enabling." Under enough popular pressure, governments cave.

We will have to agree to disagree. The sheer convenience and cost benefits enabled by automated driving puts immense political pressure on the other side. People die in airlines. But the benefit of air flight means that we as a society mitigate risks...but do not eliminate flying.

That's two.

I actually disagree. I see it more like air flight. Accidents happen. When they do, they will be investigated and cause determined, and corrections will be made...and it will get that much safer. There will be continuous improvement. The FAA may temporarily halt flights or a model of...

Flawed analogy. The safety advantage depends on how good the "teenage permit driver is." Put another way: I can supervise Michael Schumacher as the driver... Or I can supervise a blind 90 year old as the driver.... I'd say there is a safety difference even though the same person is doing the...

That depends on how much better their cars are than human drivers. What matters is how much better they are....not that they are perfect. Perfection is impossible. 🤔 We get into cabs and ubers all the time even though the drivers are not perfect.

Actually...they are. They do not have to be perfect.

It's not difficult a concept: A self-driving car, being supervised by a human driver...is safer than a car being driven by a human driver.

Driving in NYC is stressful enough! And I made my share of mistakes on a recent trip to Scotland. ;)

I think all people really care about is: being autonomously driven from point A to point B safely, efficiently, and low cost. Level 5 is not required. The larger the domain for operation, the more valuable the robotaxi service is.

If I understand "level 5" correctly...by definition humans are level 5. It's the ability to drive "anywhere that humans typically drive, in all conditions that humans typically drive in." I do not believe level 5 means "be able to drive places where humans don't, in conditions where humans...

All necessary I (nor Tesla) can help if others don't read the stats and statements and misinterpret what was actually said. That's not being misleading. Demonstrating safety is something that is done in steps (and in different ways) by any company pursuing autonomy.

To be clear...According to Tesla, a human driving on Supervised FSD has been safer than a human driving without FSD for years. Tesla has never claimed that unsupervised FSD is safer than humans....yet.

I'm not sure if Level 5 will be possible. But level 4 absolutely. The big question is: what will be the ODD (Operational Design Domain) restrictions applied. Robotaxi does not need to be level 5 to be a successful or viable product.

12.4 is not yet released to the public. He is commenting on an internal build. So before you state that you can't take anything he says seriously, understand what he's saying first.

If you feel that way...then by all means start another thread explaining yourself again. Thanks.

Obviously. You've made that much clear. We get it. Now do you have any actual questions about the drive itself or suggestions on route, methods, etc? Or do you want to continue to make semantical arguments and de-focus the thread?

Again, it may (though not in my experience) "fail about as often"...if you define "failure" as any intervention or disengagement. However, the scope / diversity of situations in which it fails is much, much. much less. This is what you do not seem to understand. It's not just being more...

Exactly...but with many tesla personalities / bulls getting hyped over any new release, I just thought it was prudent to call this out. :)

Elon claims that 'the wiggle' (which I have already said is one of 2 major issues) is resolved in FSD 12.4: We'll see....whenever it comes out! This also reinforces my assumption that the point releases (X.Y.Z) are minor, and not worth testing for fixes / advancement. I'm assuming the point...

I have read 4+ "crashes"...per lifetime...which may be different than accidents. There are several different benchmarks that I'm sure will be looked at: "crashes or accidents per mile", "deaths / mile", "injury / mile" , "$$$ in damages / mile", etc. All will have an impact on the...

As a Tesla shareholder, I hope Cyber Taxi has a unique look. (Doesn't matter if it is "like cybertruck" or not to me..just that it's unique, and will be readily identified as "A Tesla Robotaxi." What matters for the taxi is that Inside it meets / exceeds passenger expectations for comfort and...

Does not change what I said. If you have not used it, then of course you "don't see" what everyone is talking about. So please, if you have questions about the ride, disengagements, etc, I'm happy to elaborate. If you're just here to repeat ad nauseum how "Tesla can't do it because XYZ" and...

Tell me you haven't used (personally compared) FSD 11 and FSD 12, without telling me you haven't used them.

My thoughts are people generally overreact in both directions.

I don't believe you can "condition" it...but you can set a strategic waypoint to get the nav to follow the path you want.

With the amount of Teslas in the NY Tri-state area (LOTS), I am a little surprised I don't seem more FSD videos / analysis for drives in the area. 🤷‍♂️

Here is a recap of the interventions / disengagements, along with maps where they occurred. Orange = "Intervention" (either click my turn signal to change a lane, or accelerator press). Red = "Disengagement", either steering wheel turn or brake press. I may post some video clips (from...

I'll see what I can do. Gonna be a few days probably!

Yes, I have seen that. It's very helpful...although one issue I have with using it to gauge progress is that it doesn't seem to capture the "diversity" of disengagements well. For me, the "types" of disengagements (all kinds of random stuff) were much more diverse in V11 vs. v12. in other...

Completed the drive...from 4:45 PM to about 7:35 PM. Refresher: 2023 Model S, HW4, Vision Only. Firmware version: 11.1 (2024.3.15) FSD Version: 12.3.4 Subjective Comments: City Driving: Overall very impressed on how FSD 12 handled "the noise" of the city: lots of pedestrians, cars, bikes...

Keep this (several times cross posted) crap out of this thread, please. If you want to start (another) thread ranting about how this is impossible...go ahead. A different thread.

While I'm sure they will (and probably have been) sharing that detail with regulators, I doubt they would share it publicly...at least in detail. Maybe in grand generalizations, sure. The purpose of this thread is to try and at least (anecdotally and sometimes subjectively) see how the...

The proof this time will be 1) How often "major" releases are released to the public. The current talk is that FSD 12.4 is the next "significant" release. The First V12.3.x release (to the public) was around April 1. Let's see when the first 12.4 release is to the public. (Is Tesla able to...

It most definitely is not easy. You need to train for edge cases for proper behavior without "overtraining" leading to regressions in other behaviors.

Firmware version: 11.1 (2024.3.15) FSD Version: 12.3.4