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OEM CCS adapter now available to order in North America, Retrofit for older cars coming in 2023
- Thread starter MP3Mike
- Start date
I've seen a couple people report problems when charging in the cold. I think they were getting an error about the charge port temperature changing too fast, which is likely a result of the "hack" to make the old charge port compatible with the new ECU. (I tried to search quickly to find the posts, but failed.)
I have not seen any confirmation that Tesla has actually designed the new board that provides CCS comms and properly supports the old charge port configuration. I fully expect that to be the solution offered - a new charge port ECU part number applicable to those Model 3's that have the old charge port. These are the same vehicles that require the "bundle of wires" when used with the Gen4 charge port ECU.
Yep, I just checked and there are still just the two CP ECUs listed:
Notice they now call the Gen4 one the NACS version, they no longer mention CCS. (I think they did before.)
davewill
Active Member
I think there's at least a chance that it will turn out to be the same gen4 board with different firmware. I don't know if that would result in a different part number or not.
I maintain that a new ECU part number is the most likely solution. The configuration of temperature sensors and harness is different and a new board is the cheapest and easiest solution to those differences.
Does anyone have any better or more recent insight into WHY Tesla just doesn’t want to do these upgrades - even for pay?
I’ve heard some speculate at least that A) Tesla doesn’t want to enable users to use the competitors CCS networks, vs. being forced to use Superchargers for charging, etc.. I’ve never really bought that premise since it’s really only a very limited number of 2017/2018 and some EARLY 2019 M3 that have this CSS limitation with current hardware. Certainly the VOLUME of M3 from 2019 onwards all work with CSS if desired.
I’ve also heard that there is some problem with the updated CSS compatible board, that ultimately limits V3 Supercharging speeds, but again it seems some users have done this themselves and don’t really report that being a problem.
I’ve also heard that for Tesla and the sheer number of technical/mechanical/manufacturing issues that many cars have and the volume of cars sold, have led to the service centers being backed up - this DOES seem true in some areas, but certainly there have to be windows of time when doing this ~ 1 hr billed job could be done for the customers. Charging ~ $400 for a $200 adaptor and updated board with labor - that seems to take about 30 minutes should be enough incentive to do it. Maybe mobile units could do this sort of thing, scheduling them of course when their timing is best. Prioritizing other truly mechanical problems with customers cars.
Well, what is it? I know I’d still like to have it for the road trips we do - I often find myself near a DCFC CCS charger and no SC within 25-50 miles, or sometimes where I WANT to stop on the highway has the DCFC chargers, but I have to go on to an SC to charge but it’s NOT near the other vendors that I want to patronize. That’s getting less and less, but still occurs.
And the, I guess historically at least there WAS a cost difference, but today that seems to be marginal at best as the other DCFC have pretty much caught up with SC pricing or within about 5 cents a KWH, even WITH being a subscriber.
I’ve heard some speculate at least that A) Tesla doesn’t want to enable users to use the competitors CCS networks, vs. being forced to use Superchargers for charging, etc.. I’ve never really bought that premise since it’s really only a very limited number of 2017/2018 and some EARLY 2019 M3 that have this CSS limitation with current hardware. Certainly the VOLUME of M3 from 2019 onwards all work with CSS if desired.
I’ve also heard that there is some problem with the updated CSS compatible board, that ultimately limits V3 Supercharging speeds, but again it seems some users have done this themselves and don’t really report that being a problem.
I’ve also heard that for Tesla and the sheer number of technical/mechanical/manufacturing issues that many cars have and the volume of cars sold, have led to the service centers being backed up - this DOES seem true in some areas, but certainly there have to be windows of time when doing this ~ 1 hr billed job could be done for the customers. Charging ~ $400 for a $200 adaptor and updated board with labor - that seems to take about 30 minutes should be enough incentive to do it. Maybe mobile units could do this sort of thing, scheduling them of course when their timing is best. Prioritizing other truly mechanical problems with customers cars.
Well, what is it? I know I’d still like to have it for the road trips we do - I often find myself near a DCFC CCS charger and no SC within 25-50 miles, or sometimes where I WANT to stop on the highway has the DCFC chargers, but I have to go on to an SC to charge but it’s NOT near the other vendors that I want to patronize. That’s getting less and less, but still occurs.
And the, I guess historically at least there WAS a cost difference, but today that seems to be marginal at best as the other DCFC have pretty much caught up with SC pricing or within about 5 cents a KWH, even WITH being a subscriber.
davewill
Active Member
There are two classes of Model 3/Y cars that don't support CCS. The early M3s that have a gen3 ECU and some 2020/1 M3s and MYs that have a Gen4 ECU in which Tesla didn't populate the powerline comm chip needed for CCS. The latter just need a new ECU, and lots of people have done that upgrade at home. The cars with a Gen3 ECU can DIY upgrade with a Gen4 ECU and a "bundle of wires" hack that makes it work with the older charge port HW on those cars.
No one really knows why the upgrade isn't out. The speculation above is what we have. The theory about not wanting customers to use third-party chargers is just nonsense considering it works on all the rest of their cars.
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My guess is that they just haven't prioritized the time to make a retrofit kit for the old Model 3s. That shouldn't stop them from retrofitting the Gen4 NACS CP ECU into the newer Model 3s and Model Ys, but they likely don't want to deal with it only being available for some Model 3s. (Like happened with the Model 3 powered trunk retrofit.)
They do offer the retrofit for the Model S and Model X, but that retrofit was developed for use in Europe and was required to use V3 Superchargers there.
Msjulie
Active Member
The local Monterey county folks were perfectly willing to provide me a Tesla kit but Tesla was not; so when I went in to get the gen 4 ECU for my car after I ordered my bundle of wires, they asked my vin (which would have been a reason to not sell to me right?) and came right out with the part no issue at all. My 2018 is one of the earliest stealth performance cars built June of 2018 FWIW
I've seen no issues with any charging thus far but to be honest haven't exercised all conditions yet.
I've seen no issues with any charging thus far but to be honest haven't exercised all conditions yet.
The biggest issue with CCS1 charging (via the adapter) is low battery temps that limit charging speeds. I wish Tesla would allow battery preconditioning when navigating to CCS1 chargers.
That does not explain the slow charging. I am arriving after a couple hours of driving so the battery is definitely not cold. This is the case even after charging for long period (meaning battery has heated up), the charge date does not go up. Anyone have a better guess?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Driving it is not the same as preconditioning. Preconditioning actually sets a much higher target temp (up to 40C, compared to only 7C for example with regular climate control). At the current cold ambient temps, the battery will likely never get to anywhere near the same temps just by driving it (case may be different in hot weather). Also the kW depends a lot on SOC. What SOC were you at when you saw those numbers? Did you try immediately to supercharge (assuming there is a supercharger nearby) and compare?
Preconditioning Vs. Climate on: Whats the difference?
Again, does not explain the slow charging. During DCFC, the battery heater is activated so you are saying that I should see the charge rate increase as the battery temp increases - but that is not what's happening.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Again that depends on what your SOC is, which you did not answer. It could be by the time the battery is hot enough, you are already in the taper region. This doesn't happen if you were able to preheat given you arrive at the site with a toasty battery (even in cold weather). Also depending on if you have a PTC or heat pump car, the speed of the heating may vary moving vs stationary, so it's possible your car haven't even reached hot enough temps. This is much easier to diagnose if you have an app like scan my tesla (and OBD2 reader) that allows you to see all the parameters.
Also note what the voltage and current is on the CCS display screen. Many CCS chargers (even "150kW" ones) cheap out and use 200A cables, which limits Teslas given they have only 400V architecture. A car on a 400V architecture maxes out at a theoretical 80kW peak (400V*200A), with real world being significantly lower given the battery is typically lower than 400V. For example, from a quick search, a Model 3 SR+ charging at its 170kW peak is at 375V@454A. With a 200A cable, the peak power possible in the same region on the same charger would drop to only 75kW.
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BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
I would like to see an option on the charging screen to heat the battery.
Keep it automatic for navigating to a Supercharger but allow the driver to specify battery heat for max charging speed or max performance. Much like “Ludicrous+” or the older “Max Battery” options on my old P85D, but on the Charging option screen rather than the Chill/Standard/Sport selection screen on the 3.
Keep it automatic for navigating to a Supercharger but allow the driver to specify battery heat for max charging speed or max performance. Much like “Ludicrous+” or the older “Max Battery” options on my old P85D, but on the Charging option screen rather than the Chill/Standard/Sport selection screen on the 3.
