Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

He’s the boss. He has more information than you or I. He has a proven track record moving Tesla forward, not you or I.

But you admit he's made mistakes in the past. Is it possible this is one?

You’re asking the wrong person.

I'm asking the person defending Elons decision here, and who specifically replied to my previous post about the topic. If your answer is "I trust Elon no matter what argument is presented otherwise" that's entirely your choice of course.

I didn’t define what the bigger revenue would be. Did I? Nope. Did not.

ok, cool... if I'm wrong about you meaning FSD and RT- which seems to be what Elon explicitly said it means in the last call- what is it, and why do you believe ditching future larger charging revenue is a good path toward it?

As long as Tesla has been public I’ve seen hundreds of revenue, valuation, business etc… models. NOBODY has ever gotten it right. So guess how much credence I’m giving to all the RT et al models?

I mean, you told us

C) Much, much bigger sources of revenue are about to come into play

So what source do you mean by that, and what model do you have behind it?

So you say. I’ve already established I don’t care what you think.

You're writing an awful lot about a thing you keep insisting you don't care about.

I’m not looking for excuses. If they were laid off, they needed to be laid off for whatever reason we’re not currently privy to

So you think it's impossible the move is a mistake, and that it 100% for sure must be an actual reason we just aren't privy to?

That is an entirely binary thing in your mind?

It’s not a contradiction. Tesla’s way is the best. But as has been stated here ad nauseum for YEARS, Tesla can’t do it alone.

Why?

They've been hugely successful at it, for well over a decade now. At a profit. With no sign any of that was changing or that anyone else was doing it half as well.

I'm not even saying not to make wholesale changes in the department if he thought it needed to change direction-- but wholesale firing of the entire group, right in the middle of OEMs transitioning to rely on the system... and numerous reports of actual disruption of work and communication with existing in-progress and permitted supercharger projects because of the no-notice cleanout... How can you think THAT is unassailably the correct way to do it?

 

[phantasms]

But you admit he's made mistakes in the past. Is it possible this is one?




I'm asking the person defending Elons decision here, and who specifically replied to my previous post about the topic. If your answer is "I trust Elon no matter what argument is presented otherwise" that's entirely your choice of course.




ok, cool... if I'm wrong about you meaning FSD and RT- which seems to be what Elon explicitly said it means in the last call- what is it, and why do you believe ditching future larger charging revenue is a good path toward it?




I mean, you told us




So what source do you mean by that, and what model do you have behind it?




You're writing an awful lot about a thing you keep insisting you don't care about.




So you think it's impossible the move is a mistake, and that it 100% for sure must be an actual reason we just aren't privy to?

That is an entirely binary thing in your mind?




Why?

They've been hugely successful at it, for well over a decade now. At a profit. With no sign any of that was changing.

I'm not even saying not to make wholesale changes in the department if he thought it needed to change direction-- but wholesale firing of the entire group, right in the middle of OEMs transitioning to rely on the system... and numerous reports of actual disruption of work and communication with existing in-progress and permitted supercharger projects because of the no-notice cleanout... How can you think THAT is unassailably the correct way to do it?

Please don’t feed the trolls cats. I have one member on ignore. You have better wrongs to right on the internet.

 

[SOULPEDL]

He lives in the other part of belgium, the progressive one.

Thanks, guess that's everywhere, right?
I drove through Belgium a long time ago (with the Plaintif) and suddenly I was in French territory. Native toungue beyond Frere Jacques, it was a fun surprise!

 

[alexxs88]

Right. It's genius! And when others achieve volume production of EVs then Tesla can just step aside and let them build all the EVs. Maybe that's what is going on with the model 2, he is just going to let BYD take over the burden of making EVs. /s

Over here, in my corner of Europe, the SC network was a huge reason why people switched to a Tesla. Most other networks were implemented almost to tick a box and companies didn't care about them because there few people using them (chicken and egg problem).

People are saying there are some users (me included) that only talk about negative things. But at the same time, most of the people saying this haven't seen or mentioned one bad thing about Tesla's approach, so the problem is on both "sides". In my opinion, ignoring the stock price and valuation, there are a lot of incredibly positive things about Tesla:

1. Model 3/Model Y are the most compelling car choices on the market for the majority of people. It's as easy as that. If you want to buy a car today around that price, outside of some corner cases, a Model 3 / Y is by far the best choice. But instead of focusing on pointless parading "most sold car in the world", the focus should've been to expand the body types built on that platform. Notice the past tense. There's no prize to selling 1m Model Ys if you could've actually sold 1.5m across multiple variations of Model Y body shape. You could easily build a small delivery van on that platform, normal SUV etc.
2. Charging network. Head and shoulders above anything else.

There's a thought in my brain that "the mission" actually morphed into "Elon Musk must be at the forefront of any new tech wave". I can't justify in numbers the push to do their own AI chips when the economics and performance don't add up. Especially on shoestring budgets. I mean you mock the legacy OEMs for attempting (and failing) at EVs, but Nvidia "boyz" can just as well come and mock Tesla for attempting to produce an AI chip and failing spectacularly.

 

[wipster]

Apologies if this has already been posted. From SE Robinson's Tesla recap on X:
ELON NEWS:
- Just to follow up on why Elon unfollowed Sawyer and Omar, it was 100% for posting about the article that 'the information' news outlet leaked on the firing of the Supercharger Team. Per Elon directly answering the unfollows, "Don’t post leaks of confidential information and expect me to follow."

 

[Krugerrand]

unfortunately the large majority of the US land mass (Great Plains and Rocky Mtn states) has the absolute bare minimum number of superchargers along a few interstate routes. Living in one of those states, it has greatly limited the places we've been able to conveniently drive our Tesla the last 3 years outside a 100 mile radius of our home. & even before they scaled back the SC team, there were almost no new sites being permitted or developed across this broad area. I understand that fewer people live in these areas and thus it's a less profitable venture to build out SC but we still need many, many more fast chargers across much of the country to make EV travel ubiquitous. Hopefully NEVI chargers start to address those gaps but there's a long way yet to go...

Serve the many before the few. That’s the burden us mountaineers have to bear.

 

[2daMoon]

The pride that people have at insulating themselves further and further from level-heading commenters is really a saddening effect, especially as many of these very same people belove Musk who would abhor the very same actions.

The signal to noise ratio is being heavily reduced by ad-hominem attacks and the many mentioned posts about "ignores", adding pages and pages of wasted eyeball tracking.

Further even allowing the ignore function is causing bifurcated discussions. Aside from the few trolls, there are ample uber-bulls who are misrepresenting data, and reasonable discussion cannot be had because those same people have blocked anyone who might confront them on it.

How does this promote fruitful discussion into better learning about the state of the company?

The ignore function should be removed.

I wouldn't want to, but considering creating a new thread just for rational talk for people who are ignoring people.

So, you are saying hired trolls do get paid by the length and quantity of responses generated, and the Ignore feature cuts into profits?
Very interesting indeed.

 

[skybluecgreen]

Aj's the guy who attacked the hell out of Troy, only to end up with Troys #s being vastly more accurate than his own.

He gives strong James Stephenson vibes of posting lots of super-bullish pretty charts that don't pan out to accurate predictions.

He is an expert at patting himself on the back however.

 

[Krugerrand]

One can point at your post history as trollish (I don't think so fwiw). Regardless of what is occurring, it's for the best, all is good, and your try to diminish anyone who thinks otherwise. That's my point that moderators shouldn't quell dissention, because there are opposing opinions.

You misinterpreted my post. I was saying there is 1 obvious troll, but some of the negativity (implying from elsewhere) is just rational discussions. We all know there is 1 very obvious troll who post for no other reason but to upset the optimist.

Also, there are many here who infer they would prefer an echo chamber free of "FUD" or dissention from TSLA being the best and to the moon.

Look, I was happy to simply disagree with people like you that I know aren’t trolls, just don’t see the world of Tesla as I do, and move on. We wouldn’t be having this useless discussion now if the moderator hadn’t insisted.

I don’t agree there’s 1 troll. There’s half a dozen off the top of my head. I don’t agree there are people here who don’t want opposing views or that they are against disagreement or even dissension. That’s a false narrative like the echo chamber stuff that’s been circling the toilet for a decade here.

Long term investors here want FACTS. Doesn’t matter if those facts upset the apple cart or not. Yes please FUD free because that’s not facts.

 

[heltok]

Been skimming some comments from the AI day. Reddit, twitter etc is toxic AF... So many people with no technical understanding who are so fast to be dismissive, so much negativity and general hate. Sometimes I wonder if these guys are bots or not, but I think mostly they are just sheep being herded by some bot owner with bad intents. It's sad to see. And so many communities that used to be people interested in X are now filled with people who don't even like X. Finance is filled with people who hate people in finance, politics is filled with people who hate politicians, and technology is filled with people who hate technology. Really sad times we live in. Wonder how long this forum will remain readable. The Autopilot/FSD/Optimus subforum here is often very toxic, any discussion goes very quickly into long negative dialogues that makes me wonder if the posters are bots or not...

Another post from 2 years ago that I cannot quote as that thread was locked:

First TSLAQ took over the Autopilot subforum, now they are taking over the offtopic threads, soon they will take over the roundtable thread and what will be left then?

I get the feeling that this is coming true for the rountable thread. I don't mind bears who are here to debate. But I do recognize the change that is happening, they are not here to debate, they are here to cause chaos by debating. That what caused James Douma to leave the Autopilot Subforum. Many other posters left for the same reasons. That rot has slowly been spreading and now this thread is showing signs of the same rot. Many posters here are feeling the same.

Each day is more scrolling to get the information from the noise. I don't even bother reading posts with few upvotes. I am starting to feel that the time of this community being amazing is coming to an end. Maybe time to just watch electrified and the people I follow on X. Too bad, I have really enjoyed this forum and learnt a lot here!

 

[SO16]

Apologies if this has already been posted. From SE Robinson's Tesla recap on X:
ELON NEWS:
- Just to follow up on why Elon unfollowed Sawyer and Omar, it was 100% for posting about the article that 'the information' news outlet leaked on the firing of the Supercharger Team. Per Elon directly answering the unfollows, "Don’t post leaks of confidential information and expect me to follow."

Elon is following them both again. Can see them both in his following tab.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785702764082872575

 

[Krugerrand]

The pride that people have at insulating themselves further and further from level-heading commenters is really a saddening effect, especially as many of these very same people belove Musk who would abhor the very same actions.

The signal to noise ratio is being heavily reduced by ad-hominem attacks and the many mentioned posts about "ignores", adding pages and pages of wasted eyeball tracking.

Further even allowing the ignore function is causing bifurcated discussions. Aside from the few trolls, there are ample uber-bulls who are misrepresenting data, and reasonable discussion cannot be had because those same people have blocked anyone who might confront them on it.

How does this promote fruitful discussion into better learning about the state of the company?

The ignore function should be removed.

I wouldn't want to, but considering creating a new thread just for rational talk for people who are ignoring people.

I disagree with your entire post. Partly, but not wholly, due to the fact you complain about the noise here by adding to it.

 

[hobbes]

Um. Regarding Superchargers.

For a variety of minor insane reasons, I often go to Supercharge.info, a web site that tracks Supercharger installations and uses openmap. On the road, it's vaguely useful in determining what food/services are near an SuC; and it's mildly interesting tracking what's installed near places of which I have some minor interest in. I'm not sure about how it all works, but comments to certain threads here at TMC are linked to from the site, and so on.

Day in, day out, weekends, not holidays, worldwide, changes pop up on the site, anywhere from two to a dozen a day. New sites being planned, sites going under construction, sites going into service, and so on.

I know that the mass firings over at the Supercharger division of Tesla only happened a couple of days ago. And, I guess, May Day is kind of an international holiday. But there are no changes in North America since the 29th. Period. The EU, China, well, lots.

It might just be random variations. Or maybe the admins at the site are doing some kind of strike in support of the laid-off workers. But there it is.

Has all Supercharger installation work in North America stopped?

I saw that, too. Last one in EU on the 4/29 also, since then only China. But I think we have to wait for a couple more days.. If there´s nothing new in a week, that would be a differen thing.

 

[Krugerrand]

. You do you dude. You are just trolling for a fight. Whatever gets you there.

I disagree. Since you aren’t in my head, you have no idea my intention - even though I stated it in the first post. You literally agreed with me, but somehow I’m trolling.

 

[Artful Dodger]

that happens, I for one will be happy to donate

Apropo of nothing in particular, I would support Elon donating 1 million shares of TSLA to charity in such an eventuality. No taxes due on a charitable donation, right? So no shares would be needed would need to sold on the open market to pay income taxes. And it's an investment in the future, at least it's helping to stave off the end times.

 

[hobbes]

Some perspective, on Reddit a Tesla employee, stated the people who maintain and install SCs have not changed. The team let go were those who sought out new sites and permits to build. And, I guess as you stated, POC for other OEMs.

Do you have a link to this reddit post? Thanks.

 

[Tronguy]

I saw that, too. Last one in EU on the 4/29 also, since then only China. But I think we have to wait for a couple more days.. If there´s nothing new in a week, that would be a differen thing.

I saw that regarding the EU, but you beat me to it.

There was some commentary over at the Great Britain thread about SuC stopping.. so, whatever happened in NA, looks like it may have spread to the EU, too. But May Day is a bigger holiday on the east side of the pond than here, so we'll see next week.

Nothing in Down Under, either.

 

[MP3Mike]

Do you have a link to this reddit post? Thanks.

I don't have that, but there is this X post from a person in the charging industry with lots of contacts at Tesla:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785456585977798720

 

[EVNow]

So, no interns at Tesla to "save money". More and more Tesla wants to make sure they are viewed as a company in dire straits by WS - not a growing, thriving company.

 

[FreqFlyer]

Do you have a link to this reddit post? Thanks.

No, sorry. It was in one of those mega 500 or more replies. A lot of Tesla and ex-Tesla employees post over there. Get a lot of insight into some of the news stories about Tesla posted there.