FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[stopcrazypp]

It’s obviously not a sensor problem since you can clearly see curbs on the camera.
With end-to-end there’s no way to know if the neural net “sees” the curb. All we know are the inputs and outputs.

Depends on if talking about curb hits reversing or going forward. Going forward, many times it is actually blind to the curb it hits (relying on "memory" of the road structure to avoid doing so). Not sure how well that memory is retained. Just a quick glance on the reddit threads on the curb hits, it seems a lot of them are when the car is making a right at a stop sign. It's possible the car has forgotten the exact structure while doing so and instead is doing it base on a guesstimate.

In older versions that had no memory (frame by frame instead of more like video), sometimes that guesstimate is quite accurate, but it can also vary (with the lines moving around).

 

[Kablooie]

Actually, if Tesla or someone releases a L4 system based on vision only, then that will be proof as a fact. But as of now the only L4 systems have LIDAR and radar augmentation.

Teslas cameras have a few problems that could be solved with the newer models. The side view cameras are too far back. They need to be near the front to see around corners without entering the crossing lane. A higher resolution will allow the cars to see farther ahead. Also seeing into the infrared could help in low visibility situations like rain, dark, snow and fog. I believe full autonomy could be achieved with these modifications.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Going forward, many times it is actually blind to the curb it hits

I guess the videos from the repeaters of the curb hits are not something the car is privy to.

I believe full autonomy could be achieved with these modifications.

I do not.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I guess the videos from the repeaters of the curb hits are not something the car is privy to.

By the time the repeaters see it, it's too late. It hits the curb first with the front wheel and then follows through to the rear wheel.

The B-pillar cameras are mounted too high to see it, and the front cameras can't see it at all.

I found this simulated stitched view that shows how it's completely blind to the curb on a right turn:

360 surround-view of the car (DRIVE PX 2 stitches camera images)

 

[rlsd]

Curb hit was introduced in v12.3 versions. It was not a problem in v12.2. In v12.2 the car was centered in the lane most of the time. The car moved about 6-8 inches closer to the adjacent lane when the adjacent lane had no cars.

 

[JulienW]

Curb hit was introduced in v12.3 versions. It was not a problem in v12.2. In v12.2 the car was centered in the lane most of the time. The car moved about 6-8 inches closer to the adjacent lane when the adjacent lane had no cars.

Actually it started at or before 10.2. It just improved and by 10.69 it was mostly fixed.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

12.3.6

“Auto speed” Doing 46mph (from a 45mph posted road) going into a 30mph zone, with no attempt to slow down. Rural road. Rural roads are a huge issue with “auto speed”. It just doesn’t work. At least do this: make the scroll wheel actually work to adjust speed like it did in 11.x. I’d be ok with that. And no, if you turn “auto speed” off, it still doesn’t really work. Auto speed definitely works better in more congested areas.

Lane choices are still wobbly and incorrect.

Lane centering is inconsistent. If I was a cop, I’d pull me over for DWI. Same goes for the wobbly lane decisions, it looks very suspicious.

At this point, I’d take 11.4.9 back. Sorry.

 

[rlsd]

How good will it be?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786580768829079744

 

[JulienW]

How good will it be?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786580768829079744

Of course that is actually a fail. That is angled parking for front end in. If the deck were full you could not pull out and go in the correct direction.

 

[rlsd]

Auto park bug:
If you use auto park on an uneven parking stall, after the car is parked, there is an error message on the screen: Vehicle Hold feature unavailable.
It suggests to use the brake.
The message disappears when you use the car again.

Tesla service inspected my hardware and found no problem. They said there is no software to fix now.

It happened 3 times on v12.3.4 and V12.3.6.

 

[rlsd]

Of course that is actually a fail. That is angled parking for front end in. If the deck were full you could not pull out and go in the correct direction.

It's not about Dana Chandler's post. It's about Elon's reply.

 

[ArchHamster]

How good will it be?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786580768829079744

Speaking of Dana's video, do you guys hear the groaning sound at 1 min in? My car will make a almost metal sounding groan when spinning the wheel, while not moving during autopark sometimes. Like heard in the video above. I think it's the brake pad slipping on the brake disc but I'm not sure. Never happens when I manually park.

It bugs me to no end that autopark spins the wheel like twirling a baton while fully stopped. It can't be good for the power steering or the wheels. Just move the car at .5/1 mph ffs.

 

[sleepydoc]

Guess who has one and three quarter thumbs (table saw) and doesn't have 12.3.5 OR 12.3.6....



Still on 12.3.4, HW4 vision only '24 Model X.

 

[JulienW]

It's not about Dana Chandler's post. It's about Elon's reply.

Hope that is faster than the All cars with FSD get a one month trail before the end of the week.

 

[sleepydoc]

A little back on topic. To me form 10.2 - 11.4 FSD was a fun CHALLENGE. I almost always used FSD but it was like "video game" type "work/stress" and many times would kinda dread driving in challenging urban areas. No doubt for me V12 is a "game changer" and still a fun experience but NO longer a challenge or stressful. Also instead of going to the gym, home, work, etc. directly I now almost always put in waypoints to drive through different areas for "fun".

I have also been VERY skeptical that our cars will ever be L4. Now with V12 I have softened a little but still over all skeptical. I feel the camera locations preclude L4 but I can almost see a Vision L4 Tesla robotaxi with the addition of a few cameras and faster more powerful HW5 processor. Still needs 4 cross traffic cameras for full safety and will also need a front bumper camera too. Can't be blind in the front bumper area and risk a "Cruze" type accident where a person is in the front bumper and dragged under the car because it can't see them.

I'm still happy with our cars getting as good as they have and can defiantly see a reliable point to point L2 for us within a year.

This. In my daily driving I’ve reached the point where the majority of my interventions and disengagements are preference issues, not safety issues. With the significant exception of speed. 12.5 still can’t manage to pick the right speed so I’m continually goosing the accelerator to get it up to speed. If Tesla could fix that I would barely need to do anything.

 

[cyborgLIS]

Speaking of Dana's video, do you guys hear the groaning sound at 1 min in? My car will make a almost metal sounding groan when spinning the wheel, while not moving during autopark sometimes. Like heard in the video above. I think it's the brake pad slipping on the brake disc but I'm not sure. Never happens when I manually park.

It bugs me to no end that autopark spins the wheel like twirling a baton while fully stopped. It can't be good for the power steering or the wheels. Just move the car at .5/1 mph ffs.

Yeah, that sounds concerns me too. That and how it somehow seems to turn the wheel farther than it's supposed to go lol.

 

[Porkalletta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782851466426028255

Sounds like 12.4 be more of the same but 12.5 will be when they get the first “9” for Chuck’s UPL.

.6 fixed that for me.

 

[Porkalletta]

What you folks think? Since Elon seems to be back at Tesla and in revitalize mode will he start a reboot of some kind on 8/8? Maybe separating the Cybercab HW from the vehicles we would buy by making it truly able to drive L5? And to get to that level we would have to buy new cars to get to that level? For me 12.3.6 is a great improvement over past versions but nowhere near prime time ready. I would think he has to do something drastic before his customers get complacent. The last 10% to finish is always the most difficult. Your thoughts? Am I dreaming?

 

[gtg465x]

12.3.6

“Auto speed” Doing 46mph (from a 45mph posted road) going into a 30mph zone, with no attempt to slow down. Rural road. Rural roads are a huge issue with “auto speed”. It just doesn’t work. At least do this: make the scroll wheel actually work to adjust speed like it did in 11.x. I’d be ok with that. And no, if you turn “auto speed” off, it still doesn’t really work. Auto speed definitely works better in more congested areas.

Lane choices are still wobbly and incorrect.

Lane centering is inconsistent. If I was a cop, I’d pull me over for DWI. Same goes for the wobbly lane decisions, it looks very suspicious.

At this point, I’d take 11.4.9 back. Sorry.

I had to disable auto speed because it sometimes would go like 12 mph over the speed limit on 40-45 mph roads with few cars around and I was afraid I would get a ticket. I usually don’t like to go more than 7-8 mph over to avoid tickets. I wish we could use fixed offset like with standard Autosteer instead of having to use percent. I want to go 53 in a 45 and 78 in a 70, not 50 in a 45 and 78 in a 70 or 53 in a 45 and 83 in a 70.

 

[kpanda17]

Edge case, not disengaged
2023 MYP with USS running 12.3.6
Multi lane busy road, car ahead makes a bad slow left, while passing it in the same lane, the slowness of the turning vehicle and my approaching MYP, my collision avoidance warning sound goes off, the MYP goes slightly to the right to avoid and passes

Question
Shouldn’t the collision avoidance detection communicate with FSD and cause it to slow down/stop?

I did not engage, but consider it an edge case.