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Any EVs on the market besides Tesla?

chimpanzee

Member
Dec 8, 2007
178
0
pasadena, ca
Of the few hundred Toyota Rav 4 Evs out there you can watch for them on Ebay. There has been four or five sold in the last 8 months. They go for about $60k. (not kidding).

A friend of mine (Caltech Physics alumni, Class of '77) had a GM EV1. I got a ride in it many years ago around Caltech, man did it open my eyes!

As soon as his EV1 went to the crusher, he snapped up a Toyota Rav4 EV. I think $60K (new). He still has it. He is an amateur astronomer (like me), which requires long drives to the desert. The Rav4 simply doesn't have the range. He uses his Honda Element for that.

I need a SUV like EV with some ground clearance, so I can do the "desert" thing. Sportscar around town, isn't my thing.
 

DDB

Member
Sep 1, 2006
590
0
Um, like they would need to have seriously deep pockets to do things like:

#1: Develop a safety system for the laptop Li-ions.
#2: Develop a crash test program and work through all the DOT regulations.
#3: Develop a brand/marketing campaign.

Sound familiar?
We know it isn't easy.

Well, I never heard that they even made the effort to toy with raising the capital so it didn't even get to the point of trying to find deep pockets. Martin, if you're listening, care to elaborate if you're knowledgeable about AC's production plans if they ever existed?
 

doug

Administrator / Head Moderator
Nov 28, 2006
16,886
984
SF Bay Area
Well, I never heard that they even made the effort to toy with raising the capital so it didn't even get to the point of trying to find deep pockets. Martin, if you're listening, care to elaborate if you're knowledgeable about AC's production plans if they ever existed?

I asked a similar question and Martin answered it in the comments here.

6-23-2008 @ 11:18PM
Martin Eberhard said...

Doug,

Both the tzero and the Fetish were indeed conceived as performance EVs, and in this sense, Tesla follows in their footsteps. But only Tesla was conceived as a *production* high performance EV. From the beginning, I was obsessed with making the right trade-offs that would deliver sportscar performance, but also meet DOT requirements (like airbags and proven crash performance), cost and schedule targets, quality specs, mass-producibility (there's a word that makes the spell checker barf!), and everything else that makes a production car.

On the battery front, the three cars are more closely related. When I met the dwindling team at AC Propulsion back in 2003, the tzero was a lead-acid car. I personally invested in AC Propulsion to convert their one remaining car into a lithium-ion car.

It seems that Al Cocconi and I had independently come the the conclusion that lithium ion was the way to go. But because of the sudden demise of the Zero Emissions Mandate, they were in serious financial trouble, and could not even build a prototype, let alone make payroll. I funded this program in part to rescue AC Propulsion, but largely to prove lithium ion would work. And I am no rich guy!

And then AC Propulsion built the battery pack (as well as the motor and inverter) for the fetish. So all three cars are cousins, and AC Propulsion deserves a fair amount of credit for their role.

Funny thing - if AC Propulsion had any inclination to build production tzeros, I might well have bought one for myself and never founded Tesla Motors. Heck, I might even have applied for a job there!
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Aug 20, 2006
21,751
8,721
Well, I never heard that they even made the effort to toy with raising the capital so it didn't even get to the point of trying to find deep pockets.

As I recall Martin wanted to fund them to put the Li-Ion TZero into some kind of limited production and they rejected the idea.

Tesla's wild ride (pg. 2) - Jul. 10, 2008
"...He persuaded AC Propulsion to build him one and tried to convince Cocconi that he should put the tzero into production. But Cocconi had no interest in building a car company..."

[Edit: I now notice that Doug responded first, but the above still provides more background.]
 

DDB

Member
Sep 1, 2006
590
0
I asked a similar question and Martin answered it in the comments here.


I have that sometimes backwards view it's more difficult to re-invent the wheel. There's the school of thought that prices decrease as volume increases and as technology advances bla bla... The same arguments people make about the EV-1 which most of us here would probably agree isn't cost productive. Just what a waste to think of those blueprints sitting around. I'm sure there are some conversion or small shops that woud be very interested in just what is under the hood. Still a nice thought to see another competitor to the Roadster.
 

TEG

Teslafanatic
Aug 20, 2006
21,751
8,721
Is it possible to retro-fit the RangerEV with L-ion batteries?

Long delayed answer!

Yes it is:
Ford : Ranger:eBay Motors (item 230380631898 end time Sep-29-09 14:49:25 PDT)
...The white one has a pack of 100 - 100amphr Highpower LiFePo4...

001equalizebatteriesto3volts.jpg

010Addlowvoltandsensecables.jpg



(It seems to be EVNUT's old Ranger...)
 

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