FSD and local laws ...

[brayburn]

I'm a 2020 Model X now on FSD 10.5 and having a really wonderful time being a part of the evolution of this tech. I've certainly had my share of intervention free drives as well as my share of "WTH are you doing car???" moments.

But ... I do have a nagging concern that I don't know how to shake. Near my home I have 3 persistent errors that ALL have to do with what I would call "local law," but I can only imagine I'm not the only one. Specifically, within a few blocks of home I have 1) a light controlled intersection with a a clear "NO TURN ON RED" sign that FSD ignores; 2) a clearly marked right turn only lane including pavement markings that FSD shows ... and then uses the lane to go straight; 3) a similarly clearly marked left turn only lane, again with pavement markings FSD sees and then uses the lane to go straight.

In all 3 of these, I can virtually guarantee a stop/ticketing if witnessed by police in our town, so I am forced to disengage every time. I've reported all three but so far no change through 10.3 - 10.5 evolution.

These don't seem to be super strange issues ... is it just me or is it odd that these are being ignored?

 

[zanary]

Normal. If FSD Beta has not learned the appropriate behavior, then it won't act as you want it to or what is expected. By learned it's not just you taping the button and reporting it, but for Tesla to have sufficient data for labeling/training and that happens with more people report and Tesla having the data for training purposes.

It's also BETA, so the expectation is that it is still learning and will always be learning on how to behave.

 

[brayburn]

Completely agree ... sorry, I probably worded this wrong. I did report and hope they will correct over time. What surprises me is after a year or so of the first beta testing group I'm surprised "NO TURN ON RED" signs and clearly marked left and right turn only lanes hadn't been reported and coded long ago. Do those not exist most places???

 

[MLXXXp]

I suspect that for some cases, at least for the near future, they will have to rely on accurate map data instead of actually reading signs. Do you think they'll ever read signs like "No right turn Mon-Fri 7:00AM-10:00AM 4:00PM-7:00PM"?

 

[EVNow]

1) a light controlled intersection with a a clear "NO TURN ON RED" sign that FSD ignores; 2) a clearly marked right turn only lane including pavement markings that FSD shows ... and then uses the lane to go straight; 3) a similarly clearly marked left turn only lane, again with pavement markings FSD sees and then uses the lane to go straight.

FSD doesn't read all these writings and understand.

Not sure about (1) - but other two need to be in the map for FSD to follow. Check in TomTom maps to see if the mapping is correct.

ps : These are not "local laws" - these are pretty generic and happen all over the US.

 

[brayburn]

I suspect that for some cases, at least for the near future, they will have to rely on accurate map data instead of actually reading signs. Do you think they'll ever read signs like "No right turn Mon-Fri 7:00AM-10:00AM 4:00PM-7:00PM"?

It’s a good point, but for the sake of discussion does that mean purely visual systems won’t achieve level 5? Will there always be an underpinning of maps to handle such things? It’s something I’ve been academically curious about for some time. Because, any dependency on maps will have major challenges with regard to construction sites, etc.

Also while I agree with your sign comments, I’m a little more surprised the pavement lane markings are seemingly ignored.

 

[MLXXXp]

does that mean purely visual systems won’t achieve level 5?

Never say never but as far as I know, all existing systems that claim to be level 5, such as Waymo, rely on highly accurate detailed maps and are unable to operate where such maps don't exist.

 

[MLXXXp]

Because, any dependency on maps will have major challenges with regard to construction sites, etc.

Beyond that, consider a situation like traffic lights being out and a police officer is in the middle of the intersection directing traffic with a whistle and hand gestures.