Pre-refresh Model S 90d range battery health

[evalst2018]

Folks,

I am new here. I have driven EVs for several years now and thus know that real world miles and battery usuage is not a linear equation. Recetly I purchased a pre owned Model S 90d manuf. 2/16 ( aka old nose job car)

With a 100% Charge = 259 mile range battery indicator
I drove like very carefully for the past few days in 70 degree weather and only got about 225 real world miles, with about 67 usable KwH.

Do these numbers look normal, based on the car having 52k miles and being 2.8 years old. I think the original range on the 90d was either (265, 288, the post refresh 90ds were 294)

Any help is appreciated!

 

[evalst2018]

 

[itchynackers]

I just bought a cpo 2015 manufactured in nov. It had 11441mi when I bought it in dec 2018. All miles were put on in 2016, then apparently it sat for 2 years. Both times I charged to 100%, it displayed 270mi.

 

[Lasttoy]

I have 131k miles, driven in over 25 states. As I have stated on here, there is no way technically to ever estimate miles in any condition.
Anyone tells you different has not gone very far. There are too many variables, speed, ac, lights, temp to name a few.
You should have 2 charge levels. One for home! Say 75%. One for long trips with no known charger, 100%. Tesla says never charge to 100% unless you know there are no chargers where u r going. Also this page is out of owners manual.

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

Over a few days....did you account for vampire drain? And battery heating energy?

 

[Sorabh]

Folks,

I am new here. I have driven EVs for several years now and thus know that real world miles and battery usuage is not a linear equation. Recetly I purchased a pre owned Model S 90d manuf. 2/16 ( aka old nose job car)

With a 100% Charge = 259 mile range battery indicator
I drove like very carefully for the past few days in 70 degree weather and only got about 225 real world miles, with about 67 usable KwH.

Do these numbers look normal, based on the car having 52k miles and being 2.8 years old. I think the original range on the 90d was either (265, 288, the post refresh 90ds were 294)

Any help is appreciated!

I would be curious to see what your numbers become as percentages.

Ie: if you went from 100% Soc to 0% SOC and only got 67Kwh then that would definitely be concerning.

Range is not valid to me because we have no idea what it is being calculated against.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

1st off you would need to drive from 100% to less than 10% in one sitting to really know how much capacity is in your battery. Like others have said vampire drain can be high even if you set all those settings to keep it low. Leaving the car sitting over night a few days can drain the battery if it was doing battery conditioning or charging the 12v battery or what not.

Just for reference, I am getting 267 miles @ 100% on full charge currently at 44K miles. I have observed your behavior before when I leave my car is left unplugged for a couple of days. I normally get around 50-60kwh of usage even if i dont use AC or cabin heating. However on road trip I get around 67kwh or so, which is much closer to the realistic 75kwh or so of usagable capacity with the mileage I have on my car. Do your long road trip to see the range you will get from one sitting.

EDIT:
Also keep in mind a 90D has a 86KWh pack. Of which only 81KWh is usable when new. Given the time frame and mileage, you are looking at around 76KWh usable energy. I would estimate 74KWh usable to be conservative just incase you got a crappier pack compared to others. Factor in a couple of potential percentage inaccuracy in the BMS, you will probably see your 100% to 0% to be 70KWh. But you are using radio and climate and other stuff while you are driving so that 100%-0% will start looking like around 67KWh which pretty much matches what I have been getting on my pack.

 

[Sorabh]

EDIT:
Also keep in mind a 90D has a 86KWh pack. Of which only 81KWh is usable when new. Given the time frame and mileage, you are looking at around 76KWh usable energy. I would estimate 74KWh usable to be conservative just incase you got a crappier pack compared to others. Factor in a couple of potential percentage inaccuracy in the BMS, you will probably see your 100% to 0% to be 70KWh. But you are using radio and climate and other stuff while you are driving so that 100%-0% will start looking like around 67KWh which pretty much matches what I have been getting on my pack.

Are these numbers published somewhere? I would expect a 90D to have a 90Kwh battery with 4Kwh reserve.

 

[evalst2018]

I am not sure I agree with your math...if it is true then Tesla batteries are garbage. I have a 3 yr old VW egolf...I still get 90 miles range...and I must say this the build quality from the VW is a heck of a lot better.

Your math is saying there is 22% degradation after 50k miles? Tesla loves to show the Tesloop cars with 300k miles and claims only 9-12% degradation.

 

[shred86]

Are these numbers published somewhere? I would expect a 90D to have a 90Kwh battery with 4Kwh reserve.

https://electrek.co/2016/12/14/tesla-battery-capacity/

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I am not sure I agree with your math...if it is true then Tesla batteries are garbage. I have a 3 yr old VW egolf...I still get 90 miles range...and I must say this the build quality from the VW is a heck of a lot better.

Your math is saying there is 22% degradation after 50k miles? Tesla loves to show the Tesloop cars with 300k miles and claims only 9-12% degradation.

Well first off, there is a lot not said when buying your tesla. Like I said there are things tesla can do better like phantom drain which constantly drains battery which means you have less than you expected. Moreover they can be more honest on the real capacity of their battery and degradation rate especially in the beginning. Finally lithium battery fuel gauge needs to be recalibrated every so often. This is achieved by drawing it to empty and filling it back up to get a reference.

As for the tesloop, you have to keep in mind the report had the older battery tech which some say are more resilient to high cycle count. Also they used it mostly in highway and over a short period of time with many many supercharging sessions which in some cases is better for the longevity of the pack. Keep in mind this not true in any 90D because of the new chemistry change. Therefore it will NOT be reflective of what you can expect with your battery.

 

[evalst2018]

I rented a 6 month old 75d...and drove it very hard....still got 235 range. As Tesla advertises there batteries by Kwh size, this could easily turn into class action...as the numbers are all deceptive and basically made up.