Here are some pics I took in Kobe in 2015 of the above which I stumbled across in some sort of car sharing service, I'm guessing.
While doing some Googling, I found a FB page for them at Sea:mo.
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While doing some Googling, I found a FB page for them at Sea:mo.
BTW, the gen 1 Rav4 EV that roblab referred to is Electric-Car Drive Report: 2002 Toyota RAV4 EV Crossover. Yes, this was the generation w/the "SERVICE PRUG". You can also see it for at least the 2000 to 2003 model years at Compare Side-by-Side
I believe I've been at some EVents with the Mark Geller mentioned in the article. I don't know him personally.
I believe I've been at some EVents with the Mark Geller mentioned in the article. I don't know him personally.
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eyedrop
Member
I’ve been driving EVs for years and working on them as a technician for almost 2 years. I can tell you that daily ownership and driving experience is a breeze and often preferable once you have a charging routine. You shouldn’t shame a vehicle for its range or charging infrastructure when daily commutes are often under 100mi a day, with 110v outlets everywhere. That for me eliminates range anxiety. EVs are the perfect daily driver. But not a good sports tourer as the Taycan suggests...
But EVs are not perfect and still in the early years of slow fast charging and batteries/modules/parts that are proprietary, expensive, on the ragged edge of performance, etc, reliability issues, etc... And nobody wants to sit at a fast charger. Why do you think the Japanese don’t have fancy EVs yet? They know the products are not actually ready. They will let the consumers/Tesla beta test those and test the market.
I think the mainstream answer in the immediate 10-15 years should be PHEV. Need to fast charge? Go visit the empty but once populated gas station down the road instead of waiting for electrons to flow down a cable.
Other reasons 100mi range PHEVs are the future (and coming soon): refined tech/lack of issues, cheaper to buy and service, battery supply issues mitigated, some small town auto shops already service hybrid.
The only immediate future EVs deserve is cheap economy cars. But instead we have these expensive proprietary hyper range faux luxury cars that are all the trend and hype right now. It’s very unfortunate. Maybe one day, the fast charging, battery, interiors, and service infrastructure will feel refined like ICE.
Pure EV should be the ultimate goal. But I can understand and agree with Toyota in that it believes it is actually greener down the road to litter the world with millions of super cheap and efficient hybrids NOW, than try to convince the world of an expensive unfinished product that belongs in a dumpster after warranty.
Tesla has done a great job with that, but their time is running out and service centers busting at the seams.
Meanwhile, you have companies like GM and Hyundai taking production and tech slow and conservative on purpose. I wonder why?
But EVs are not perfect and still in the early years of slow fast charging and batteries/modules/parts that are proprietary, expensive, on the ragged edge of performance, etc, reliability issues, etc... And nobody wants to sit at a fast charger. Why do you think the Japanese don’t have fancy EVs yet? They know the products are not actually ready. They will let the consumers/Tesla beta test those and test the market.
I think the mainstream answer in the immediate 10-15 years should be PHEV. Need to fast charge? Go visit the empty but once populated gas station down the road instead of waiting for electrons to flow down a cable.
Other reasons 100mi range PHEVs are the future (and coming soon): refined tech/lack of issues, cheaper to buy and service, battery supply issues mitigated, some small town auto shops already service hybrid.
The only immediate future EVs deserve is cheap economy cars. But instead we have these expensive proprietary hyper range faux luxury cars that are all the trend and hype right now. It’s very unfortunate. Maybe one day, the fast charging, battery, interiors, and service infrastructure will feel refined like ICE.
Pure EV should be the ultimate goal. But I can understand and agree with Toyota in that it believes it is actually greener down the road to litter the world with millions of super cheap and efficient hybrids NOW, than try to convince the world of an expensive unfinished product that belongs in a dumpster after warranty.
Tesla has done a great job with that, but their time is running out and service centers busting at the seams.
Meanwhile, you have companies like GM and Hyundai taking production and tech slow and conservative on purpose. I wonder why?
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And I respectfully disagree.
Although it is hard to disagree with the message of your statement, I am perplexed by your math. First, to drive 100 miles daily, you need at least 150 miles of range and better have over 200 miles of range if you drive in winter. Second, with 110V outlet you are looking at 4 mi/hr charging rate that will let you charge for your next 100 miles in only 25 hours....
250 kW charging is fast enough for me to sit 10 minutes at a fast charger. And so far my model 3 is more reliable than my Honda hybrid. Thank you very much for updating me on thoughts of Japanese CEOs.
My bet - PHEVs will be dead in 10 years. Interestingly, recently Sandy Munro shifted the end of the ICE age from 10 years to 7-8 years from now, and I had similar predictions a few months back. So, watching the same developments, different people can come to similar conclusions.
This is where I totally disagree. 1) PHEV is more complex and potentially more expensive than EV or ICE car => higher price and/or lower automotive margins. Those who can produce EVs with 300+ range for reasonable price will do it. 2) If a small town auto shop can service a 100 mile hybrid (not our town shops though) with a 20-30 kWh battery, what would stop them from servicing a full EV with a 70-100 kWh battery? The hybrids are NOT cheaper to service.
So, EVs should now "deserve" the future. Wow. EVs will simply replace all ICE/Hybrid new car sales after 10 years.
Or maybe they just should make a good inexpensive finished EV? But can they?
Time is running out for Toyota.
In 1-1/2 years I own a Tesla, I haven't visited a SC a single time, so I can't report what is going on there.
Because they can't change their corporate culture maybe?
Although it is hard to disagree with the message of your statement, I am perplexed by your math. First, to drive 100 miles daily, you need at least 150 miles of range and better have over 200 miles of range if you drive in winter. Second, with 110V outlet you are looking at 4 mi/hr charging rate that will let you charge for your next 100 miles in only 25 hours....
250 kW charging is fast enough for me to sit 10 minutes at a fast charger. And so far my model 3 is more reliable than my Honda hybrid. Thank you very much for updating me on thoughts of Japanese CEOs.
My bet - PHEVs will be dead in 10 years. Interestingly, recently Sandy Munro shifted the end of the ICE age from 10 years to 7-8 years from now, and I had similar predictions a few months back. So, watching the same developments, different people can come to similar conclusions.
This is where I totally disagree. 1) PHEV is more complex and potentially more expensive than EV or ICE car => higher price and/or lower automotive margins. Those who can produce EVs with 300+ range for reasonable price will do it. 2) If a small town auto shop can service a 100 mile hybrid (not our town shops though) with a 20-30 kWh battery, what would stop them from servicing a full EV with a 70-100 kWh battery? The hybrids are NOT cheaper to service.
So, EVs should now "deserve" the future. Wow. EVs will simply replace all ICE/Hybrid new car sales after 10 years.
Or maybe they just should make a good inexpensive finished EV? But can they?
Time is running out for Toyota.
In 1-1/2 years I own a Tesla, I haven't visited a SC a single time, so I can't report what is going on there.
Because they can't change their corporate culture maybe?
Not to mention that when you’ve driven a pure electric car a Prius and the like are soul draining
The hybrid technology developed by Toyota is superb. Dirt cheap to operate. With current gas prices in the US, my Prius was cheaper to fuel than my Tesla this week on a 1600 mile drive using Superchargers. Of course gas prices in the US are anomalously low right now, so I expect that to change. However, cost of operation wasn’t the reason to buy the Tesla anyway. If that was the motivation, I would have bought a Prius Prime at 2/3 the cost. I bought the Tesla to reduce carbon production, I love Tesla’s bev technology, and the thing is the best driving car I have ever encountered. We all know the advantages here. Given that it is a “cutting-edge” technology, I fully expect, at some point, that the value of my model 3 will crater as objectively superior versions appear over the next few years.
Brando
Active Member
Toyota to launch two-seater ultracompact EV in 2021
I'm guessing solid state battery production limited by battery lab size. am I right?
OR is it demand?
That article is hilarious. I'm not kidding.
Snort.
Influence them to do what? Do the exact opposite of Toyota?
With a range of 62 miles, how far can you really travel in a mountainous area??? And does thing which looks really, really underpowered, even make it up a mountain?
Nope, not even a new type of battery then.
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