We must face facts - meat is the problem

[mspohr]

‘It’s eating what the sea provides’: Galicia’s Atlantic diet eclipses Mediterranean cousin

In Fisterra in north-west Spain, a diet rich in seafood, fruit and vegetables survives, and has been found to reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and heart-related conditions

www.theguardian.com

Dr Dariush Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and the director of the Food is Medicine Institute at the Friedman school at Tufts University, has welcomed the trial results from the other side of the Atlantic. “The trial is important, because ‘common sense’ around a healthy diet has in recent years devolved into raging social media battles over radical fad diets,” he says. “This trial provides important confirmatory evidence on what we’ve learned to be true over the last 20 years: a healthy diet is rich in minimally processed fruits, veggies, nuts, seafood, and other fibre and phenolic rich foods, and low in highly processed grains, starches, sugar and salt.”

Although Calvo acknowledges the Atlantic diet has many similarities to the Mediterranean diet – not least the heavy use of olive oil, the ubiquity of fresh fruit and vegetables, and the fact that both are based on fresh, local and seasonal foods – she insists there are a few fundamental differences. She points to the Atlantic diet’s fondness for brassicas, such as cabbage and greens, which are high in glucosinolates – organic compounds that have been shown to help prevent certain kinds of cancers and other illnesses.

She does, however, warn that the diet’s inclusion of cheese and potatoes should not be seen as carte blanche to reach for the cheesy chips. “What we have shown in our clinical studies is that the dietary habits of the Atlantic diet are associated with better metabolic health and lower levels of cholesterol, lower BMI and less metabolic syndrome,” she says. “That doesn’t mean the ingredients on their own are healthy – it means the pattern and combination of these foods has healthy effects. At the end of the day, it’s about following the advice we so often provide: a varied and diverse diet that takes into account quantities and physical activity and health.”

 

[David_Cary]

I had to laugh. An ad on this forum this morning ... "Beef, it's what's for dinner".
What's next, a Chevy Tahoe ad? Maybe a motorboat ad?
It's pretty sad when even TMC doesn't have any standards on what ads they allow. I can't see any pathway in my emails, posts etc that would encourage a beef ad....

 

[mspohr]

I had to laugh. An ad on this forum this morning ... "Beef, it's what's for dinner".
What's next, a Chevy Tahoe ad? Maybe a motorboat ad?
It's pretty sad when even TMC doesn't have any standards on what ads they allow. I can't see any pathway in my emails, posts etc that would encourage a beef ad....

Beef consumption is down. They're desperate.

 

[mspohr]

Loeb: It's really amazing. For one thing, more of our patients with prostate cancer die of heart disease than of prostate cancer. And erectile dysfunction is really an early warning sign of cardiovascular disease. We felt like it was incumbent upon us, even within urology and sexual medicine, to better understand the basis for lifestyle modification that can help with these issues. We started doing some research on it, looking at men who follow more plant-based diets, and we found that they have a lower risk for fatal prostate cancer and are less likely to have erectile dysfunction.

Loeb: First we looked at erectile function in men without prostate cancer in the health professionals follow-up study, a very large cohort study out of Harvard University. We found that among omnivorous people, those who ate more plant-based and less animal-based food were less likely to have incident erectile dysfunction. Then, we published a new paper looking at patients with prostate cancer. These men have extra challenges for sexual function because in addition to the standard cardiovascular changes with aging, prostate cancer treatment can affect the nerves that are involved in erections. But amazingly, even in that population, we found that the men who ate more plant-based and less animal-based food had better scores for erectile function.

That was really good news, and it's a win-win. There is no reason not to counsel our patients to eat more plant-based foods. Meat is not masculine. Meat is associated with a higher risk for erectile dysfunction and is considered carcinogenic. It's just something that we should try to stay away from.
Meat Isn't Manly When It Comes to Erectile Function - Medscape - Apr 15, 2024.

 

[CyberGus]

Meat Isn't Manly When It Comes to Erectile Function

*frantically checks pants*

Whew! Cheeseburgers for dinner!

 

[David_Cary]

Using science and logic doesn't work really well with humans. Not in a long term sense. Someone will eat that cheeseburger and be happy they have an erection that day not realizing that they won't 5 years down the line. Getting people to think in a long term way and adding in the complexity of science works only for 20-30% of people. The rest want that feeling they get when the beef hits their tongue and be damned the erection 5 years down the line.

And marketing works.

 

[DrGriz]

Using science and logic doesn't work really well with humans. Not in a long term sense. Someone will eat that cheeseburger and be happy they have an erection that day not realizing that they won't 5 years down the line. Getting people to think in a long term way and adding in the complexity of science works only for 20-30% of people. The rest want that feeling they get when the beef hits their tongue and be damned the erection 5 years down the line.

And marketing works.

"Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we all must die!"

There's a certain amount of resignation to fate that humans have, as well.

But think of it this way: most humans throughout history and before, including pre-human ancestors, couldn't afford to pass up a meal of any sort. It's hard wired. It takes a lot of effort to overcome basic survival instincts as an investment for a future that may not come to pass.

 

[CyberGus]

most humans throughout history and before, including pre-human ancestors, couldn't afford to pass up a meal of any sort. It's hard wired.

Most can't pass up an erection, either

 

[DrGriz]

Most can't pass up an erection, either

Ha! That reminds me of a friend (passed on, now) who said many times, "Never pass up a good erection."

He had diabetes and missed the opportunity for 12 years before he died.

 

[mspohr]

Healthier ready-to-eat meals would have ‘huge’ EU climate benefits – report

Co-authors say ‘no-regrets’ policy would save consumers €2.8bn a year while cutting emissions by 48m tonnes

www.theguardian.com

Fast food and ready meals provide more than a sixth of the EU’s calories but contain far more salt and meat than doctors recommend, according to an analysis from the consultancy Systemiq commissioned by environmental nonprofit organisations Fern and Madre Brava.

The report explored the effects of making big food companies comply with diets from the World Health Organization, which aims to avoid malnutrition and non-communicable disease, and the EAT-Lancet Commission, which tries to reduce environmental as well as human harm. In both cases, they found that ready-to-eat meals would need to contain about half as many refined grains and two-thirds less meat, on average, as well as “significantly” more legumes.

Livestock are responsible for 12-20% of planet-heating pollution and increase the levels of some heart diseases and cancers in rich countries where the average person eats more meat than doctors recommend.

 

[mspohr]

Avian flu outbreak raises a disturbing question: Is our food system built on poop?

News that Midwestern dairy cows may have become infected with avian flu by eating poultry waste has many asking: What are American farm animals being fed? And should we be concerned?

www.latimes.com

If it’s true that you are what you eat, then most beef-eating Americans consist of a smattering of poultry feathers, urine, feces, wood chips and chicken saliva, among other food items. As epidemiologists scramble to figure out how dairy cows throughout the Midwest became infected with a strain of highly pathogenic avian flu — a disease that has decimated hundreds of millions of wild and farmed birds, as well as tens of thousands of mammals across the planet — they’re looking at a standard “recycling” practice employed by thousands of farmers across the country: The feeding of animal waste and parts to livestock raised for human consumption.

It seems ghoulish, but it is a perfectly legal and common practice for chicken litter — the material that accumulates on the floor of chicken growing facilities — to be fed to cattle,” said Michael Hansen, a senior scientist with Consumers Union

 

[mspohr]

UN livestock emissions report seriously distorted our work, say experts

Exclusive: Study released at Cop28 misused research to underestimate impact of cutting meat eating, say academics

www.theguardian.com

A flagship UN report on livestock emissions is facing calls for retraction from two key experts it cited who say that the paper “seriously distorted” their work. The UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) misused their research to underestimate the potential of reduced meat intake to cut agricultural emissions, according to a letter sent to the FAO by the two academics, which the Guardian has seen. Paul Behrens, an associate professor at Leiden University and Matthew Hayek, an assistant professor at New York University, both accuse the FAO study of systematic errors, poor framing, and highly inappropriate use of source data.

The scientific consensus at the moment is that dietary shifts are the biggest leverage we have to reduce emissions and other damage caused by our food system,” Behrens told the Guardian. “But the FAO chose the roughest and most inappropriate approach to their estimates and framed it in a way that was very useful for interest groups seeking to show that plant-based diets have a small mitigation potential compared to alternatives.”

Correspondingly, the mitigation potential from farming less livestock was underestimated by a factor of between 6 and 40, he said.

 

[CyberGus]

Avian flu outbreak raises a disturbing question: Is our food system built on poop?

News that Midwestern dairy cows may have become infected with avian flu by eating poultry waste has many asking: What are American farm animals being fed? And should we be concerned?

www.latimes.com

If it’s true that you are what you eat, then most beef-eating Americans consist of a smattering of poultry feathers, urine, feces, wood chips and chicken saliva, among other food items. As epidemiologists scramble to figure out how dairy cows throughout the Midwest became infected with a strain of highly pathogenic avian flu — a disease that has decimated hundreds of millions of wild and farmed birds, as well as tens of thousands of mammals across the planet — they’re looking at a standard “recycling” practice employed by thousands of farmers across the country: The feeding of animal waste and parts to livestock raised for human consumption.

It seems ghoulish, but it is a perfectly legal and common practice for chicken litter — the material that accumulates on the floor of chicken growing facilities — to be fed to cattle,” said Michael Hansen, a senior scientist with Consumers Union

To be fair, we also feed poop to our plants

"The circle of life"

 

[mspohr]

To be fair, we also feed poop to our plants

"The circle of life"

The problem is (as the article points out) that animals are capable of multiplying, hosting and mutating animal organisms in the poop.
Plants just take the nutrients and filter out the organisms.

 

[DrGriz]

The problem is (as the article points out) that animals are capable of multiplying, hosting and mutating animal organisms in the poop.
Plants just take the nutrients and filter out the organisms.

That said, my aunt died of listeria she got from cutting a cantaloupe in half.

 

[SilverString]

Hmmm. I think the title to this post is only half right. Meat Heads are the real problem. Archie Bunker knew...

 

[Spaceout]

As a retired beef producer, this anti meat cliche is very uniformed. First 90% of all cattlemen are very environmental conscious, its to our benefit if the grasslands stay healthy so our 4 stomach gazers can forage, raising a calf or yearling, using their microorganisms to break down the callous of plants that humans cant consume, So basically you have a vegetarian eating indigestible grass and producing high grade proteins and micro nutrients'. Real truth is government pays farmers to row crops, before growing crops the farmer tills the land than roundup the soil to kill all life, so these new approved crops can grow without much input or conflict. We as carnivores, with the newer research shows animal products, meat, diary, preferred to aid in digestion, giving humans the best nutritious value and easily, naturally digestible nutrition for your body.
Important to look at the whole picture, Media lies, education system is broken, people are sick at a record level, and fat. You our what you eat, Humans our meat eaters, Agriculture revolution is a newer phenomenon. Agriculture is extremely hard on nature, what we are taught is not exactly true,
So if your extremely healthy keeping on keeping on, if not look for alternative information, personally we don't care what you eat, as free people.

 

[mspohr]

That said, my aunt died of listeria she got from cutting a cantaloupe in half.

The Listeria came from external contamination (probably from cattle).

 

[mspohr]

Eating light: Finnish startup begins making food ‘from air and solar power’

Maker hopes solein, protein grown with CO2 and electricity, will cut environmental impact of farming

www.theguardian.com

The real climate benefits from solein come from cutting the vast tracts of land used – and abused through deforestation on an epic scale – for animal feed and pasture. Instead, renewed forests could trap carbon.

Other companies are pursuing the same dream. Dozens are using microbes to create animal feed, although they often require sugars or fossil fuel feedstocks. One US rival, Air Protein, has opened a factory in California using similar “hydrogenotrophs” – hydrogen eaters. It has the backing of the food multinational Archer-Daniels-Midland, the British bank Barclays and GV (formerly Google Ventures).
The Dutch company Deep Branch, which is making fish food, claims its Proton protein will be 60% less carbon-intensive than conventional proteins. Deep Branch is looking at taking the CO2 produced by the UK biomass power generator Drax.

 

[DrGriz]

The Listeria came from external contamination (probably from cattle).

Yes. Of course.

multiplying, hosting and mutating animal organisms in the poop

Therefore my point: it fulfills your remark. Plants can do all of that if they are sprinkled with animal stuff. They aren't exempt. They can also transmit chemicals which are carcinogenic/poisonous/etc. in addition.

This is why we have to wash our plant foods and often they are safest if they are cooked, too.

We agree that vegetarianism is superior in many ways, but we need to be careful about putting it on too high of a pedestal.

Environmentally, widespread vegetarianism would definitely be beneficial to the climate. So would fewer people, thereby reducing the size of the impact of animal farming through lower demand.