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Only time will tell who the fool is. Looking at the momentum, I have my guess. Lots of interesting ways to store and fuel cars with hydrogen. Here is one; little old but method seems solid. 50 kg is 5 kg of hydrogen. but he was wrong about people using 850 bar pumps.

@mblakele Obviously Toyota didn't want to discriminate. Or was confused by the name of the site. Where did the CleanTechnica author get the powertrain spec? Everyone says it wasn't disclosed. "we again don't know power figures for this model" - At 420 mark.

Seriously, are you reading only Cleantechnica and Electrek, the only two unbiased sources on hydrogen cars? /s 1. Toyota doesn't need to wow the handful of people dashing to 60 mph on highway on ramps in order to soothe their sagging middle aged ego. it will find plenty of takers among those...

2021 Toyota Mirai Fuel-Cell Sedan Goes RWD for Second Generation

OK, I looked into it and admit my error in this. Toyota was giving rentals on a case by case basis. Well, now they are refunding drivers their payments. Also throwing in some more discounts as I hear. Statement from Toyota in June: Bay Area experiences hydrogen shortage after explosion

Some insistent folks have done exactly that. They're all getting free rental. What is your proof that some are not? Or are you also one of those here who are making up facts on the fly? On top of that, there is this, from the top of that page you so keenly follow but were reluctant to post...

Oh, btw, you may have missed a couple from the same public Mirai page that you used and I pointed out few days back. You are welcome. I don't know if we need to cross the names, when these are on a public page anyway. :) Toyota Mirai - Owners page @mblakele , "Can you fuel an HFCEV if the...

Haha! That pretty much rules out everyone. Due to net metering, most solar panels are connected to the grid, and will be shutdown when grid has no power.

Oh yes. The dreaded PSPS (public service power shutdown) alert has been issued in California! Watch out for furious electric car drivers stranded at random places.:)

They all have access to free rentals with gas reimbursement. if many of them are still choosing to drive their fuel cell cars, does that tell you something? Is that a line at the supercharger? Even with those 4-5 cars in line, it doesn't take longer than a supercharger visit with no waiting.;)...

This is a strange analogy. Criminals want to avoid prison, not go into them. They also don't like the prison food. Just visit Alcatraz and you will know how they revolted against bad meals. I am not getting this analogy at all! Anyone doubting value of fast charging, take a peek at this thread...

You're right, I did. Here is the article. It mention something about solar panels and storage. I was thinking, $30M is way too much for some battery powered trucks. With the details in modbee, it doesn't seem too bad. Tesla Semi Electric Trucks Roll Into Frito-Lay Plant

If that is the tone, then people involved with this in CARB should all be fired. The number of stations means nothing if they constantly keep running out of hydrogen. If the report actually included the up time of those stations, they will have no place to hide. It should be fine if CARB...

This just shows the extent (40 miles in this case) people will go to fill up fast. :) Also shows how much they like these cars. The argument seems to be "fueling stations are too far, so the tech is not viable". That argument becomes invalid when more new stations open up. Today 80 miles...

Pretty good review of Hyundai Nexo. The main complaints were cost of fuel, and that he can't drive it in all 50 states.

Hawaii sees the light. Hawaii's first hydrogen station opens in Honolulu. I think, if every major city had a few (5) hydrogen stations, these cars could sell in tens of thousands each year.

Already proved above! This mpge is a confusing metric. I think EPA created it to confuse the hell out of buyers. A better number is miles/KWh or KWh per 100 miles. Let's take your Ioniq BEV example. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/what-is-mpge I'll be generous and wrap up the cold weather...

I guess I was too generous with my worst case analysis. Imagine the electric car driver in West Viginia, Wyoming or North Dakota, where each KWh of electricity produces over 750 g of CO2. Colorado, with generous EV incentives and cold temps, is not far off with 649 g CO2/KWh. File:Carbon...

I would say your knowledge is quite out of date. Here is a list of most efficient non-plugin gas cars. All the 6 at top have > 50 mpg. Below is #1. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cars-with-the-best-gas-mileage Now , for yout 100 mpge Tesla, please add the CO2-e for that car and add the...

OK, I misread your previous comment as "energy needed is > 120% of energy stored". 10 KWh is not a huge amount. People spend that much every day just to turn over the water in their backyard pool. see page 5 in that link. With larger scale, this is less. But the most important is, this is an...

Do you read the links you post? The link is same as what I posted earlier. Hydrogen fueling does not need millions of charging stations. A small footprint h2 station can fuel more cars than electric charging stalls few times bigger in size.That's the beauty of it. If all 60 stations in...

More on Linde's Cryo Pump 90 : https://whyhydrogen.linde.com/honey-i-shrunk-the-hydrogen-pump/

??? 10k psi = 70 MPa = 700 bar = H70. 5k psi = 35 MPa = 350 bar = H35 So why will fuel cell car drivers fill up with H35 to get only 2.5 kg ( 5k psi)? H70 is what they need, so their 10k psi tank is filled to 10k psi and they have ~5kg in tank for a full fill. Need a refresher course on this...

Patience, my dear friend! Slow and steady will win the race. :) 150 kg is more like 40 cars. 40 /day * 7 days = 280 cars served just from that one small station, assuming ~240 miles/week drive. Then, there is Mountain view with 350 kg/day and San Ramon with 350 kg/day. That's another 175...

I give up. I can't follow what you are arguing about. You claimed, there is 30 minute wait between fills. I told you, go in the evening hour to see peak usage of back to back fills. and showed a plot that tells you how much is dispensed in 3 hour window. Now, you talk about some irrelevant...

Just go here tonight and time 3-4 fills. Won't take you long. You know what, you don't even need to do that! It's too easy for anyone to check how much gets dispensed over 3-4 hour window right from here, from the steepest slope. H2 Stations - San Jose [ You bet!

What does the 335 mile range (is that the highest) Model S cost? What does the Honda Clarity fuel cell cost? Hello Tesla subsidy to sell more cars! Check the rates of independent charging companies that don't sell cars, like Chargepoint and EVGO, and get back to me please. More FUD of extra 30...

Hello! Nexo is twice as big as the other lowly (in height) sedans you mention! It can fill up in 5 minutes vs. minimum half an hour for 80% (and then have to leave the charger). BTW, Nexo is so popular that dealers in Los Angeles are asking for more money than what Hyundai is leasing it for. I...

It seems a fallacy many have here is that if EVs drop in price enough, everyone will buy it. But there are many people for whom slow charging electric car just doesn't work. Think about folks living in high rises in dense cities of Europe and Asia or those who park on the street. Electric...

Math anyone? Good thing this person doesn't own an electric car charging stall.

What city are we talking about here? I thought, you mentioned Mill Valley. The map of earth is showing it to be 26 miles away from the station. San Rafael, etc are closer (22 miles). But your point is taken. it is not ideal for "local" fill ups. Still better than nothing (situation before)...

Good question! The significances are: - It brings some supply to the north bay area around San Francisco. So a little better for @ohmman 's neighbor with the Mirai. :) - It has two nozzles, doubling the throughput. The compressor capacity is still little bit of unknown. - New stations are...

OK, your this link is good. Exact is not important, but when there is difference of 10B and 75B, I need to understand; else we could be talking different things. Two things here: 1. As my chart above shows (and @acoste also pointed out same time),50% of h2 is used in refining. No ICE, no need...

That link shows natural gas used for hydrogen production in US. ~200K million cu ft in 2018. How do you calculate kg of hydrogen produced from this? Why are you using only US data, and why only natural gas? Because worldwide, it was almost 75 B kg of hydrogen produced last year. So your 10B...

I see you repeat this 10Bkg h2/yr quite often. Where are you getting it from?

I think you make 2 mistakes. 1. 20 MW is just the rate of generation; doesn't indicate storage capacity, For battery storage, more energy means bigger battery, means more minerals and cost proportional to energy. For hydrogen the stack (most expensive part) remains same regardless of storage...

Thanks folks for a number oriented discussion. Your arguments have convinced me that the Fraunhofer report is wrong and biased.... ... against fuel cell cars! Because hydrogen IS the storage medium of future for excess renewable energy. So, the H2 generation should be considered as ZERO CO2-e...

So you say the study should consider 300k miles because you see a few cars that are very old? I think I will last 100 years too because I heard about some Japanese person who was more than 100 years old. :) I can confirm some 100 kWh Model S/X being totaled in the first year. Should any study...

Following link debunks the repetitive stuff you are posting here. I think @arnis was looking for this. https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/de/documents/news/2019/ISE_LCA-BEV-FCEV-Results.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2GFVEMta4yWXc2AUNErtNR--DQu4nxq3ZknUhg_yzAZ6QYKoUkorurJhY

More misinformation? Do these pro-EV bloggers get an automatic membership in club #H2Q? ;) 23k viewers sucked it all up, no questions asked.. - Showed no proof or links of the claimed $15k fuel card on used Mirais 'selling in the teens'. Just goes by "hearsay" but feels obligated to spread...

Fuel cell-powered SUV makes debut as official presidential car When will POTUS Mr. Trump adopt a Ford FC-150? * Signing off again for the day. Got to get work done.

@ohmman et al, Here is the original context on this whole Mirai thing. $15k fuel card on a cheap used Mirai. Anyway, I won't dwell any more on this. I will wai tfor an answer from the seller.

You asked for the link, I gave it. If you have issues with the study, take it up with the authors. What do you mean by worst case? I took the average. Anyway, it seems you are one of those hecklers with reading comprehension skills. I am going to start using a forum feature here. Don' expect...

True. These are the 25% people most severely impacted and are the most unhappy ones. Toyota etc. are giving them free rentals. Which also helps relieve the fuel shortage for others. HOV access can be the issue for some. Some exceptional ones are driving all the way to San Ramon from Mill Valey...

@ohmman You are just digging a deeper and deeper hole. You missed the context entirely. I reserve comments on your comprehension skills. Exactly! I will give @nwdiver credit to have even found this scam post, true to his claim. @nwdiver was feeling all excited to have found proof that no one...

Try this. It has all the details to locate the actual paper/study if you wan to go to the real source. As I said in other thread, results can vary if assumptions are changed. New Study: Large CO2 Emissions From Batteries Of Electric Cars - The Global Warming Policy Forum (GWPF) "For each...

@ohmman, please quote my message. Don't just say that I said something. It doesn't look good that you claim I said something but can't quote that message. Who doesn't know about $15k free fuel on new hydrogen cars? It's even there on cafcp website. were you thinkign that I am not aware of this...

?? Give up what? @nwdiver claimed $15k free hydrogen on USED Mirais., but produced no link. Then you post a link of $15k fuel card on a NEW Mirai, that pretty much everyone knows about. Did you read the prior posts and understand the context? Post a link of USED Mirai selling for under $17k...

Thanks for the link. So UCS put the battery pack CO2 at 6 tonnes, which is about 3 years of emission from a Camry hybrid. So, it is not bad. But there are some studies saying it is 8 years of CO2.