Hydrogen vs. Battery

[JohnSnowNW]

Exactly! I will give @nwdiver credit to have even found this scam post, true to his claim.
@nwdiver was feeling all excited to have found proof that no one wants these cars in CA.

@nwdiver Did you just pick this from another H2 FUD article on some other pro-EV site? Another of the bogus posting by the author?
It looks like a scam for sure. First clue was already pointed out.
Second clue: 99% fo Mirais are leased. What is the chance some odd private owner buys it and posts a scam like ad?
Third clue: It is near Santa Monica. That doesn't have the fuel shortage.
The card also has name, and it comes in two chunks I believe. There are some doubts about teh card claim also. If ti was from a dealer, I could understand.

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...NEMENT&sort=relevance&stkTypId=28881&zc=55404

Well, I mean...it's not like there aren't quite a few really cheap Mirais for sale in CA. I couldn't weed out the multiple of the same vehicle listed through Carvana, unfortunately.

EDIT: I was able to remove the multi-post listing. There are around 37 Mirais, most quite a bit less than $20k:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...NEMENT&sort=relevance&stkTypId=28881&zc=55404

 

[mblakele]

Like my gas car, that has 5K miles/year after a decade.

Ouch! Go out and replace that ICE with a Murrain Mirai — we'll wait.

 

[mtndrew1]

Current H2 availability in California.

 

[ohmman]

Current H2 availability in California.

 

[mtndrew1]

View attachment 452614

I can’t imagine the misery of driving an H2 car right now. Based on the Facebook groups it’s just a never-ending dance of trying to find very expensive fuel and hoping the filling mechanism doesn’t freeze or go down if one is lucky enough to find any gas.

It’s an inherently foolish way to power private passenger cars.

 

[Curious George]

@ohmman et al,
Here is the original context on this whole Mirai thing. $15k fuel card on a cheap used Mirai.
Anyway, I won't dwell any more on this. I will wai tfor an answer from the seller.

 

[Curious George]

Fuel cell-powered SUV makes debut as official presidential car

When will POTUS Mr. Trump adopt a Ford FC-150?

* Signing off again for the day. Got to get work done.

 

[Dr. J]

@ohmman et al,
Here is the original context on this whole Mirai thing. $15k fuel card on a cheap used Mirai.

 

[JRP3]

When will POTUS Mr. Trump adopt a Ford FC-150?

Even he isn't that stupid.

 

[mtndrew1]

Fuel card or not there is very little demand for Mirais on the used market.

There are many of them on cars dot com for less than $14,000, representing an abysmal 76% three-year depreciation rate.

The only reason Toyota moved any of them in the first place was insane incentives, carpool stickers, and employee lease specials. A friend of mine working for Toyota was offered a $249 lease special on a Mirai with the $15,000 fuel card. Basically a free car for three years after the state refund and it still wasn’t enticing enough.

I remember Toyota predicting 6k deliveries per year delivered with H2 below $5/kg by this point in time. Oops.

 

[nwdiver]

That is a curious advertisement.

If the car has 36,000 miles on it, and it costs about $70 to drive 300 miles...that card should have ~$7,000 left.

The owner getting free H2 from somewhere? Do not all stations take the free fuel cards?

What likely happened here is that some dealerships are using the $15k fuel card to clear out CPO Mirais. So this was a CPO that had ~36k miles on it. Maybe the H2 station near them is no longer dependable so they're selling their car with the remaining balance of the fuel card that came with the car.

I linked to this video earlier but you may not have seen it...

 

[acoste]

Are all FCEV backers compete lunatics?

this comment is a little over the borderline, don't you think?

 

[nwdiver]

this comment is a little over the borderline, don't you think?

.... not given the thermodynamic properties of H2 production and use in a FCV....

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

65803 miles

this comment is a little over the borderline, don't you think?

maybe?
which borderline
is there a border between earth and the moon?
I'm not sure I've seen it defined ever

 

[acoste]

.... not given the thermodynamic properties of H2 production and use in a FCV....

why are you still spinning around the thermodynamics?

H2 presence is about lack of batteries, and therefore faster achievement of ZEV only cities plus sufficient storage for renewables.

 

[acoste]

65803 miles

maybe?
which borderline
is there a border between earth and the moon?
I'm not sure I've seen it defined ever

ethics.

 

[mblakele]

H2 presence is about lack of batteries, and therefore faster achievement of ZEV only cities plus sufficient storage for renewables.

When?

Lately it's been difficult to take HFCEV seriously because BEV growth has been strong. CARB targets 47k HFCEV vehicles on the road by 2024 — but Tesla put over 150k BEVs on California roads in 2018 alone. Today, ZEV growth is almost entirely due to BEV, which get greener with the grid. HFCEV are classified as ZEV, but they aren't really green because almost all H2 comes from natural gas. CARB targets 34% renewable by 2024, but many BEVs charge on high-renewable grids today (my own is 100%).

BEV is well ahead of HFCEV, and hasn't stopped growing. How and when will HFCEV catch up?

 

[nwdiver]

why are you still spinning around the thermodynamics?

H2 presence is about lack of batteries, and therefore faster achievement of ZEV only cities plus sufficient storage for renewables.

.... seems like the least insane solution would be to improve the battery supply... NOT use a technology that uses twice as much energy...

 

[JRP3]

why are you still spinning around the thermodynamics?

H2 presence is about lack of batteries, and therefore faster achievement of ZEV only cities plus sufficient storage for renewables.

Except back in reality it's quite obvious that EV's are expanding at a much faster rate than H2 vehicles.

 

[Curious George]

What likely happened here is that some dealerships are using the $15k fuel card to clear out CPO Mirais. So this was a CPO that had ~36k miles on it. Maybe the H2 station near them is no longer dependable so they're selling their car with the remaining balance of the fuel card that came with the car.

I linked to this video earlier but you may not have seen it...

More misinformation? Do these pro-EV bloggers get an automatic membership in club #H2Q? 23k viewers sucked it all up, no questions asked..

- Showed no proof or links of the claimed $15k fuel card on used Mirais 'selling in the teens'. Just goes by "hearsay" but feels obligated to spread the misinformation anyway.
- "entire SF bay area is out of hydrogen" - No, it isn't. Unless she doesn't understand what that area means.
- compares a $22k Mirai with a $100k+ Mode S P100D and declares the latter as a better deal! Duh, if everyone had that money lying in their bank account. What world does she live in?
- Doesn't understand how h2 refueling works. The stations don't need to be up 24 hours. Just the 3 minutes I one needs.

Anyone figured out yet what's happening to the 600+ kg of hydrogen in the area daily, if all fuel cell cars are parked in driveways?

Oh, haven't heard anything from that scam poster with $14k fuel credit yet. Go ahead, ping him for me. Get his (or her) number.