Tesla staff advised that it’s fine to regularly to charge to 90% & there is no more battery degradation than when charging to 70% or 80%.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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70%, 80% or 90% regular charge?
- Thread starter Nuclear Fusion
- Start date
travwill
Active Member
Really depends on how much you need on a daily basis. Elon once stated (and others) that the sweet spot is 30%-70% for battery longevity and health. Perfectly fine to use the default 90% though.
I don't drive much at all so charge to 70% max almost all the time. Usually use between 50-70% area.
I don't drive much at all so charge to 70% max almost all the time. Usually use between 50-70% area.
Seattle Tom
Member
80% charger here. One of the articles on electrek convinced me to lower it a bit, since a battery expert recommended 70%! That was too low for me, but 80% gives me 235 miles of range which is FAR more than I need daily.
Here’s the article. Not for nothing, I think Jeff Dahn knows more about batteries than I do.
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability
Here’s the article. Not for nothing, I think Jeff Dahn knows more about batteries than I do.
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability
Do you plan to keep your car for decades? If not, don’t worry about it. There’s been no meaningful difference seen in the Tesla batteries with lower states of charge thus far, six years after Model S was introduced. In other words, lab studies may show a statistically significant difference but it’s not clinically significant.
I'm not a regular commuter, and my X is barely 100 days old, so I have no data to back this up, but my idea is 50% is ideal charge. Obvi when you use the battery, it goes down, so your goal is to hover around 50%. E.g. it's better to daily charge from 40% to 60% than 70% to 90%. I typically aim for 60% at home since it's 88 miles to a supercharger, but usually charge up to 99-100% when I do supercharge.
Through the warmer months I charged to 80% and ended the day usually at 55%. During the winter I will up the daily charge to 90% to help combat the loss of efficiency with the cold. We have an 8 year unlimited mile powertrain warranty so I wouldn't worry about it to much.
I feel like this is the new "constantly swiping up on your iphone to quit your apps" kinda thing. 50%? Not necessary. I'll charge mine to 90% every day, even though I won't need it. Lots of data to suggest degradation is minimal at that level, and I won't keep my car until 2050 anyways... Don't worry so much, folks!
Another angle not mentioned here is performance. If you want maximum performance then you want to be at a higher state of battery charge. I subjectively feel more kick at 90% charge than at 50% in my uncorked X 75D. Objectively I've seen peak power figures of up to 360 kW with a fully charged battery and around 325 kW close to 50% charge. So that's a difference of around 45 hp, which is quite significant. Obviously it would be less of a difference between 70 and 90% charge and less critical for a 100D or P100D, but I would rather have a little more performance than marginally less battery degradation, especially given that long term owners are not reporting major degradation when charging daily to 90%. Typically I charge to 70 or 80% on a daily basis unless I specifically need more and then top up during the day while I'm home. I rarely leave the house with less than 70% charge. I don't Supercharge very often, so that helps preserve the battery too. I really have no battery longevity concerns on a 4 year 50K mile ownership cycle, so I may as well get the maximum performance out of the drivetrain.
Tesla has done a fantastic job in making EV operations as simple as possible.
Though if you're into maximizing the care for your battery pack (and possibly slightly reducing the long term battery degradation), then do your research and use whatever charging practice you want (charging less frequently, charging to lower levels, …). Though most owners aren't doing that - and are likely following only the above guidelines.
- As the manual recommends, plug in your Tesla whenever you can (usually at "home")
- Keep the charge between 10-90% most of the time
- When charging above 90%, do so immediately before starting a road trip - so the battery doesn't stay above 90% for extended periods
- And try to avoid never fully discharging the battery
Though if you're into maximizing the care for your battery pack (and possibly slightly reducing the long term battery degradation), then do your research and use whatever charging practice you want (charging less frequently, charging to lower levels, …). Though most owners aren't doing that - and are likely following only the above guidelines.
Exactly. I don’t know where this battery obsession of many Model 3 owners is coming from. It certainly isn’t coming from the experience of Model S owners over the last six years, who have had insignificant battery loss even when charging to 90% daily and 100% for trips. For example my Model S 60 lost 5% range in 5 years with that charging regimen. You’re not going to do meaningfully better than that by babying the battery.I feel like this is the new "constantly swiping up on your iphone to quit your apps" kinda thing. 50%? Not necessary. I'll charge mine to 90% every day, even though I won't need it. Lots of data to suggest degradation is minimal at that level, and I won't keep my car until 2050 anyways... Don't worry so much, folks!
This is an appropriate answer to OP, but does not need repeating every time someone has a nerdy observation. I, for one, plan to keep my car for decades, but also stashed the difference I saved between 100D and 75D in my investment account to replace the battery 8+ years down the road. So, I'm not worried about it, but I am curious. It's more of a theoretical engineering question than practical how to charge question. I don't have an iPhone, but I would probs be one that constantly swiped up to close apps. Sounds like more fun than Candy Crush.
For instance, Peteski's point on performance is well-taken. It makes me think owners that nerd out about degradation will have a better battery after 4 years. That will make me happy with less acceleration normally since I also stay in chill mode and rarely floor it. It also reminds me to fully charge before showing off to my ICE gear head brahs.
And this:
I've never heard of this. How often do you need to charge above 80%? Is this in official documentation? Or at least a tweet?
A year and a half and 13k in, and I have 256 rated miles instead of the specified 257. I plug in every night, almost always charge to 90%, try not to leave it sitting at low state of charge, and otherwise generally don't think about it. I would recommend others do the same unless they have a compelling reason to do otherwise.
Battery degradation has been a larger issue for other EVs, like the Nissan Leaf that had major problems with rapid battery degradation.
This will be an interesting area to watch as other manufacturers bring their EVs to market.
Tesla proved out their battery technology with the Roadster. While they had a number of battery/charging issues with the early production Model S cars, they fixed that in the early years of production - and the battery packs produced since then have been surprisingly resilient, with most losing only a small percentage of capacity over time.
Will the other manufacturers, especially those releasing their first long range EVs, have issues with long-term pack degradation?
Another factor - with the supercharger, destination charger, and home charger technologies Tesla controls, Tesla has a lot of control over how vehicles are charged.
Other manufacturers will likely be more reliant on 3rd parties - and have less control how vehicles are charged - which could have an impact on battery life.
And, unlike the other manufacturers, Tesla is able to produce the batteries, packs and motors in house (at the Gigafactory) - while the other manufacturers will likely outsource that to partners.
This will be an interesting area to watch as other manufacturers bring their EVs to market.
Tesla proved out their battery technology with the Roadster. While they had a number of battery/charging issues with the early production Model S cars, they fixed that in the early years of production - and the battery packs produced since then have been surprisingly resilient, with most losing only a small percentage of capacity over time.
Will the other manufacturers, especially those releasing their first long range EVs, have issues with long-term pack degradation?
Another factor - with the supercharger, destination charger, and home charger technologies Tesla controls, Tesla has a lot of control over how vehicles are charged.
Other manufacturers will likely be more reliant on 3rd parties - and have less control how vehicles are charged - which could have an impact on battery life.
And, unlike the other manufacturers, Tesla is able to produce the batteries, packs and motors in house (at the Gigafactory) - while the other manufacturers will likely outsource that to partners.
dhrivnak
Active Member
The Roadster may be different but we only had 3 charge levels available storage 50%. Standard 87% and range or performance 100%. We also have diagnostic screens and can see balancing and none was ever noted below 83%. Normally there is additional balancing as we approach 100%.
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