Enphase vs SolarEdge

[wwhitney]

But when a cloud goes away, it makes more power than expected due to the panels having cooled of, so you get little peaks above the expected power curve.

I think that cloud edge effect is due to the panels getting greater than typical insolation, via two different paths from the sun to the panel: the direct path, now that the cloud has passed, and an indirect path where the light is refracted from the edge of the cloud.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[cwied]

That's interesting... do you know how the system knows it's safe to re-energize if the grid is down? Is there a gateway at the main breaker?

I believe the Sunnyboy provides a separate outlet that can provide up to 2 kW. It doesn't re-energize the house wiring.

 

[nwdiver]

I believe the Sunnyboy provides a separate outlet that can provide up to 2 kW. It doesn't re-energize the house wiring.

Yes but Enphase does re-energize the main bus... just not sure how it complies with anti-islanding rules.

 

[ai4px]

I believe the Sunnyboy provides a separate outlet that can provide up to 2 kW. It doesn't re-energize the house wiring.

Correct, the Sunny Boy makes 2kw on a dedicated 120v outlet (output). It is not connected to the house wiring... good to run extension cord to keep a freezer running or a sump pump. They talk about it not delivering power well, but if you’ve got 4kw of panels and only 2kw output, it’s going to keep plugging away despite clouds.

 

[strangely]

My vote is for the Enphase for the following reasons:

1) Cleaner install. Doesn't ruin the aesthetics of your house as much due to having inverter on the wall
2) No central point of failure due to an inverter failure.
- Enphase Inverters are extremely reliable and there is a lot of FUD about them not being reliable.
- Cant speak for the reliability of the IQ series, but I've had 36 M215's on my roof since 2012 with no issues.
3) Longer warranty for the inverters
- Unless things have changed (haven't checked this in a while) Enphase inverters have a 25 year warranty, versus I think 10 or 12 for the other guys
4) Much easier to expand the array if need be

That said there are some advantages with some of the other solution in certain situations:

1) I think having a dedicated 120V outlet on the sunny boy is a very compelling thing to have, however a bit moot if getting a Powerwall.
2) Integrating car chargers like the solar edge is maybe smart to perhaps simplify wiring in some situations, although maybe not ideal if you have Tesla as you'll need the adapter, which takes away from the beauty and simplicity of using the Tesla one due to the charge port cover release button.

 

[Lasttoy]

My roof has Enphase, work great.
But, when one inverter went bad. Could not get any Enphase on the phone. They have zero customer service.
All the installers and UF says they are worthless. So i replaced it and tossed old one.

 

[NuShrike]

What's the hit now (in the USA) now that inverters have been added to the tariff war?

On topic, I have 28 SunPower (SolarBridge) panels/microinverters for now 7 months in SoCal.

Couldn't be happier especially when they perform over 100% of PVoutput insolation estimates -- when clean. Recently hosed the panels I could (barely) reach to remove some of the ash from the recent fires and back to > ~102% after being < ~95% all summer.

Compared to other older, local (SolarEdge or Enphase) installations local to me on PVoutput, only Enphase is competitive for performance under the same weather conditions.

* When clean and in a hot, cloudless day, my microinverters beat everything else.
* When normal-dirty in a hot, cloudless day, toss-up between SunPower or Enphase with LG panels for most efficient.
* In a cool, cloudless day, SolarEdge doesn't have the clipping my SolarBridge (or Enphase) inverters have. Otherwise, clipping doesn't occur when my panels are normal-dirty.
* In cloudy-days SolarEdge systems seem slow to show production data while Enphase/SolarBridge have the 5-minute (and faster) update capability. Performance seems better on micro-inverter with the passing-clouds, but that's just my impression.

refs:
SunPower/SolarBridge: Koko wa Greenwood 10.080kW
LG/Enphase S280: AmpEater 5.760kW
LG/SolarEdge: Irvine ThunderVolt 6.000kW
LG/Enphase: thirvine 6.400kW

 

[supratachophobia]

I have two proposals from the same company. One uses SolarEdge with optimizers, at $2.50 per watt, and another uses Enphase IQ7 microinverters, at $2.80 per watt.

The installer says that Enphase IQ7 is more efficient and generally produces more power than SolarEdge. They also have a better warranty. And they might release the new IQ8 microinverter which may allow the system operate during the day without a battery.

Do you have any experiance with Enphase vs. SolarEdge? Is it true that one produces more energy than the other? Is there any other pros/cons?

Just did phase 1 of our solar, 13kw with SolarEdge. I think we are super happy with SE. The hardware seems solid, the install was almost easy, and the app reporting is fantastic. I'm not sure how the Enphase would be more efficient than the HD-wave series. SE seemed to be first to market with that type of inverter, but who knows, maybe I'm missing something.

 

[nwdiver]

Just did phase 1 of our solar, 13kw with SolarEdge. I think we are super happy with SE. The hardware seems solid, the install was almost easy, and the app reporting is fantastic. I'm not sure how the Enphase would be more efficient than the HD-wave series. SE seemed to be first to market with that type of inverter, but who knows, maybe I'm missing something.

The only real advantage to Enphase is that there's no central inverter to mount. But IMO ~$0.20/w is WAAY too steep a premium for that advantage. The AC integrated modules are interesting and I know some installers that prefer those over SolarEdge just because they save labor costs. But even that is limited. AC strings are usually limited to ~16Aac (~3.8kW) IIRC. SolarEdge is 400vDC and 15A or 6kW per string. Running fewer strings helps too.

I think it's only a matter of time before there's a standard optimizer protocol that is integrated into the Module especially with the new NEC requiring rapid shutdown. This would minimize even that advantage.

 

[neptune2000]

My vote is for the Enphase for the following reasons:

1) Cleaner install. Doesn't ruin the aesthetics of your house as much due to having inverter on the wall
2) No central point of failure due to an inverter failure.
- Enphase Inverters are extremely reliable and there is a lot of FUD about them not being reliable.
- Cant speak for the reliability of the IQ series, but I've had 36 M215's on my roof since 2012 with no issues.
3) Longer warranty for the inverters
- Unless things have changed (haven't checked this in a while) Enphase inverters have a 25 year warranty, versus I think 10 or 12 for the other guys
4) Much easier to expand the array if need be

That said there are some advantages with some of the other solution in certain situations:

1) I think having a dedicated 120V outlet on the sunny boy is a very compelling thing to have, however a bit moot if getting a Powerwall.
2) Integrating car chargers like the solar edge is maybe smart to perhaps simplify wiring in some situations, although maybe not ideal if you have Tesla as you'll need the adapter, which takes away from the beauty and simplicity of using the Tesla one due to the charge port cover release button.

I have had a 4kW system from Enphase since 2013. ZERO issues and after 5 years there is hardly any loss of power. I have 17 panels.

Enphase Energy - Enlighten | Sign in to Enlighten

 

[supratachophobia]

My roof has Enphase, work great.
But, when one inverter went bad. Could not get any Enphase on the phone. They have zero customer service.
All the installers and UF says they are worthless. So i replaced it and tossed old one.

I will add that SolarEdge tech support was pretty fantastic. And they all seem to have electrical-engineering-type experience so they can get very granular in the divisiondi/troubleshooting.

 

[supratachophobia]

The only real advantage to Enphase is that there's no central inverter to mount. But IMO ~$0.20/w is WAAY too steep a premium for that advantage. The AC integrated modules are interesting and I know some installers that prefer those over SolarEdge just because they save labor costs. But even that is limited. AC strings are usually limited to ~16Aac (~3.8kW) IIRC. SolarEdge is 400vDC and 15A or 6kW per string. Running fewer strings helps too.

I think it's only a matter of time before there's a standard optimizer protocol that is integrated into the Module especially with the new NEC requiring rapid shutdown. This would minimize even that advantage.

6kw per string only with the p400 optimizers ( or better) and hdwave inverter series I think.

 

[nwdiver]

6kw per string only with the p400 optimizers ( or better) and hdwave inverter series I think.

7.6kW inverter and up. They maintain string voltage at 400v and limit current to 15A regardless of the type of optimizer. The voltages keep creeping up with every generation. Hopefully we'll have a 450v version and even longer strings soon

 

[supratachophobia]

7.6kW inverter and up. They maintain string voltage at 400v and limit current to 15A regardless of the type of optimizer. The voltages keep creeping up with every generation. Hopefully we'll have a 450v version and even longer strings soon

What is the preferred string legnth if given the option of 2 x 8 panels (2.96kw per string) or 1 x 16 (5.92kw)?

 

[nwdiver]

What is the preferred string legnth if given the option of 2 x 8 panels (2.96kw per string) or 1 x 16 (5.92kw)?

Doesn't really matter too much... the current is the same therefore line loses are the same. You're really just using more wire on the shorter strings. There may be some loss of efficiency boosting voltage to 400v on the shorter strings but it's likely negligible.

I definitely love this about new inverters. So much flexibility! Not long ago I had a 13kW project. We could fit 45 panels. 15 panel strings wasn't an option because voltage would be too high. 5 strings of 9 wasn't an option because voltage would be too low. Ended up doing 4 strings of 11 with a panel mounted just for aesthetics and voltage is still slightly too low on hot days...

 

[supratachophobia]

Doesn't really matter too much... the current is the same therefore line loses are the same. You're really just using more wire on the shorter strings. There may be some loss of efficiency boosting voltage to 400v on the shorter strings but it's likely negligible.

I definitely love this about new inverters. So much flexibility! Not long ago I had a 13kW project. We could fit 45 panels. 15 panel strings wasn't an option because voltage would be too high. 5 strings of 9 wasn't an option because voltage would be too low. Ended up doing 4 strings of 11 with a panel mounted just for aesthetics and voltage is still slightly too low on hot days...

Thanks for the info. And no kidding about easy. When I hooked up our 32 panels, there wasn't any splicing, no risk of shock, just snapping MC4 connectors in one at a time. I think we've come a long way.

 

[eSuzy]

I got Enphase inverters in 2012. For my 45 panels, I must have had every one fail by now. I have 8 out right now and have been waiting 6 months for Enphase to ship the replacements under their warranty. Warranty is only good if it is met. I've heard the newer ones are better, but not impressed with their commitment to serve existing customers.

 

[nwdiver]

I got Enphase inverters in 2012. For my 45 panels, I must have had every one fail by now. I have 8 out right now and have been waiting 6 months for Enphase to ship the replacements under their warranty. Warranty is only good if it is met. I've heard the newer ones are better, but not impressed with their commitment to serve existing customers.

I've heard the same from some installers. IMO the important takeaway there is that a 25-year warranty doesn't necessarily mean that it's any better than an inverter with a 10 year warranty. It's likely a cost-benefit marketing strategy to make the rooftop components match the warranty of the panels...

 

[miimura]

I have 18 Enphase micro-inverters also installed in 2012 and I have not had a single failure. In another discussion elsewhere, I speculated that the amount of clearance and airflow under the panels may make a difference in the inverter life. My panels have a large clearance underneath, so the inverters are presumably cooled better than an installation with less clearance.

 

[strangely]

I got Enphase inverters in 2012. For my 45 panels, I must have had every one fail by now. I have 8 out right now and have been waiting 6 months for Enphase to ship the replacements under their warranty. Warranty is only good if it is met. I've heard the newer ones are better, but not impressed with their commitment to serve existing customers.

Which enphase inverter do you have?