Does a battery ever have a positive ROI with net metering

[brkaus]

I believe Texas covered the folks that got screwed with dynamic pricing. Power companies won. Customers won (because they were saving oodles up until then). Taxpayers…. Well.

 

[cali8484]

I guess I fundamentally reject the idea that one is better than the other or that it’s somehow “big solar’s” fault and they’re ruining it for everyone like the word “culprit” implies.

That's was not the intention nor how I would interpret it but it's certainly no worse than the article making rooftop solar out to be the "culprit" as you interpret it.

Homeowners have been spoiled by treating the grid as a year-round battery and the simple fact is that can’t scale any more.

Can't scale? Just because of the duck curve goes negative at times? Even the article states that having to curtail solar production does not mean the economics is not workable.

 

[GregBallantyne]

That's was not the intention nor how I would interpret it but it's certainly no worse than the article making rooftop solar out to be the "culprit" as you interpret it.


Can't scale? Just because of the duck curve goes negative at times? Even the article states that having to curtail solar production does not mean the economics is not workable.

Yes. There can never be too much solar, there can only be not enough storage.

 

[BGbreeder]

Yes. There can never be too much solar, there can only be not enough storage.

Storage is good, but I think that there are other, perhaps more cost effective options.

To my way of thinking, it doesn't have to be just storage, rather more ways to absorb excess/low cost production; e.g. production sensitive EV charging levels and rates, building preheat/precooling, hydrogen production, smelter heating, increased pump rates, even thermal storage, etc.

I think that making the marginal cost driven rates available, especially to industrial users, is likely to ameliorate, if not "cure" the issue. I suspect that thinking about the issue of production and demand mismatches broadly is likely to help, and I mean broadly in both possible uses, and geographically.

All the best,

BG

 

[Midpack]

Yes. There can never be too much solar, there can only be not enough storage.

Dramatically increases the cost of solar however. Gone are the days when homeowners could just use what they needed and get paid for any surplus they sent to the grid without any battery/concern for supply/demand mismatches.

Haven't researched the topic yet, but I assume it's more cost effective for utilities to have large battery storage facilities versus individual homeowners or small sites. Allow utilities to control base load while still responding to hour by hour demand fluctuations. OTOH if homeowners want to be completely off the grid (anymore?) or have local battery storage for power outages, that's part of the homeowners calculus.

 

[cali8484]

To my way of thinking, it doesn't have to be just storage, rather more ways to absorb excess/low cost production; e.g. production sensitive EV charging levels and rates, building preheat/precooling, hydrogen production, smelter heating, increased pump rates, even thermal storage, etc.

Yes, many ways to skin the cat If and when the duck curve goes negative frequently (e.g. daily) then POCO's can sell cheap TOU power to crypto mining farms as they easily ramp up/down "production" and they love any cheap power they can get.

 

[BGbreeder]

Definitely many ways to skin a cat, and the more the merrier!

 

[Mr. Ed]

Your results will vary, but the importance of ROI means different things to different people.
During Hurricane Ian my 8.2KW solar with 3 Powerwalls 2s plus a solar water heater were the envoy of everyone in our 405 home complex. We not only powered two other homes and provided hot coffee and golf cart charging for others but housed two other people for ten days. I did have the other two homes turn off their electric water heaters at night. Those with backup generators, LP or otherwise, had to sweat it out worrying if they had enough fuel to get them through. At lease one whole house LP powered generator failed to start and several gas ones quit running during the time we were without power or they ran out of gas. I know this because they came to me for help.
Now two years after the storm, at least 6 other homes here have solar, with more coming on line all the time. Not all with batteries,YET however.
Due to low payback from Florida Power and Light for the energy we sent them last year, I took us off the grid 4 months ago. It was scary at first, but once we got over our fears of being on our own I would never go back on the grid. Now not everyone lives in the "Sunshine State", by the way not a true statement, but for us it works great. I charge our two electric cars off the solar and or batteries and still have energy left over.
So is this the right thing for you to do where you live? Is your ROI worth more than your peace of mind and the extra security and safety of having a solar battery backup? Can you afford this? I leave it up to you. Again YRMV.

P.S. Meat and other refrigerated food does not smell too good when you are out of power for 10 days and they haven't picked up the the garbage for two weeks.

 

[Matt-FL]

My ROI on batteries is about 9.5 years at current electric rates (after federal tax incentives, and after solar ROI is reached @ 5 years 7 months). My utility has raised rates twice since I installed, so I can only assume that timeframe will reduce over time. That's just about at warranty timing, however I expect my batteries to last at least 5 years past the expiration.
Just about two years in, my powerwalls (which drain daily) are still at 107% capacity.

 

[Jagular]

Austin Energy has a value of solar plan where all electricity generated by ones solar panels are paid a fixed price ($0.09). No matter if it is consumed locally our sent out on the grid. Heck, even on battery with the grid out, you are getting paid for the solar you use.

No benefit to batteries here except as a backup. Which of course does have some value.

Also, resale value. We’ve agreed on terms to sell our house (closing soon) and we had a $150k price benefit attributed towards the sale from the solar panels, Powerwalls and the other energy reduction things we did (upgraded many of our electronics/appliances to be more energy efficient, some windows during the remodel, and more insulation)…

 

[TacoGuy]

You may well be right, I was trying to extend the benefit of the doubt. If people understood electricity daily demand curves and how large scale utilities have to respond to fluctuating demand, they might understand why net metering shouldn’t continue indefinitely. It was a gift incentive that couldn’t scale up extensively. It’s amazing how power plants micro manage capacity as it is, net metering is a lose-lose for utilities and consumers at large (beyond net metering direct beneficiaries).

If the public utilities planned well they'd have storage for that what is generated in excess and be able to deliver that energy during demand periods when residential solar is not offering surplus to the grid. This is a push - pull problem. Net metering to incentivize customers to add solar. Sure not prolonged duration, but there has to be investment in infrastructure by the public utility to created storage or its back on the consumer to add batteries which may work for the individuals who can afford it/ have the space, but it won't fix the energy demand problem in the slightest.